A Broadband and ADSL forum. BroadbanterBanter

Welcome to BroadbanterBanter.

You are currently viewing as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today.

Go Back   Home » BroadbanterBanter forum » Newsgroup Discussions » uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband)
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Outdoor WiFi link - cheapest way to do 30 metres or so



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old April 22nd 20, 11:01 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Chris Green
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 286
Default Outdoor WiFi link - cheapest way to do 30 metres or so

Tweed wrote:
Peter wrote:

Chris Green wrote

I don't need Gigabit speeds, 100Mb/s would be fine, thus a pair of
300Mb/s capable routers, if they can 'see' each other OK would be
fine.


You will be doing very well to get even 30mbits/sec with any WIFI
product, IME. I spent ages setting up a wifi link though a wall, and
eventually got about 30 mbps by setting up a 40MHz mode, with a
Draytek 800 AP one end and a TP-link box at the other.

Eventually I got fed up with it and drilled a hole in the wall and put
a cable in there.

Ethernet over mains manages even less speed, IME of testing a number
of "1Gbps" products.


I can pull 200 Mbit/sec from my Apple AirPort Extreme to my iPad. This is
on 5GHz. But this is within a few metres with only a wooden floor in
between. It does tail off with distance. If I were the OP I'd give serious
consideration to burying some optical fibre. You can get “armoured” stuff
(basically encased in some very strong plastic, and believe me it is strong
as I had to get a hack saw to some to remove it from an installation). The
advantage of fibre is that it is unlikely to go off through water ingress
over the years. Fibre to electrical Ethernet converters are also pretty
cheap these days. It also removes any problems of grounding potential
differences between buildings.

That really would be future-proofing it! I guess it's a possibility
though, A quick look at prices though suggests it's not *that* cheap,
well over 1/metre and I'd need 50 metres or more.

--
Chris Green

  #22  
Old April 22nd 20, 12:15 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Tweed[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18
Default Outdoor WiFi link - cheapest way to do 30 metres or so

Chris Green wrote:
Tweed wrote:
Peter wrote:

Chris Green wrote

I don't need Gigabit speeds, 100Mb/s would be fine, thus a pair of
300Mb/s capable routers, if they can 'see' each other OK would be
fine.

You will be doing very well to get even 30mbits/sec with any WIFI
product, IME. I spent ages setting up a wifi link though a wall, and
eventually got about 30 mbps by setting up a 40MHz mode, with a
Draytek 800 AP one end and a TP-link box at the other.

Eventually I got fed up with it and drilled a hole in the wall and put
a cable in there.

Ethernet over mains manages even less speed, IME of testing a number
of "1Gbps" products.


I can pull 200 Mbit/sec from my Apple AirPort Extreme to my iPad. This is
on 5GHz. But this is within a few metres with only a wooden floor in
between. It does tail off with distance. If I were the OP I'd give serious
consideration to burying some optical fibre. You can get “armoured” stuff
(basically encased in some very strong plastic, and believe me it is strong
as I had to get a hack saw to some to remove it from an installation). The
advantage of fibre is that it is unlikely to go off through water ingress
over the years. Fibre to electrical Ethernet converters are also pretty
cheap these days. It also removes any problems of grounding potential
differences between buildings.

That really would be future-proofing it! I guess it's a possibility
though, A quick look at prices though suggests it's not *that* cheap,
well over 1/metre and I'd need 50 metres or more.


About 200 pounds for 50 metres with connectors fitted.

https://www.cablemonkey.co.uk/custom...bre-cable.html

I'm suggesting it more in terms of long term reliability, rather than
speed, but of course you should never really run out of bandwidth.

Presumably you've got plenty of time to dig the trench at the moment....

  #23  
Old April 22nd 20, 12:44 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
AnthonyL
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 125
Default Outdoor WiFi link - cheapest way to do 30 metres or so

On Tue, 21 Apr 2020 20:58:58 +0100, Chris Green wrote:

R. Mark Clayton wrote:
On Tuesday, 21 April 2020 19:01:13 UTC+1, Graham J wrote:
Chris Green wrote:
I want a reasonably fast and reliable link to an outbuilding which is,
I guess, 30 metres or so from the house. The existing UTP cable has
finally given up the ghost in the recent winds and I'm wondering
whether to replace it (difficult, time consuming) or to use a WiFi
link of some sort.

I don't need Gigabit speeds, 100Mb/s would be fine, thus a pair of
300Mb/s capable routers, if they can 'see' each other OK would be
fine.

Should I be looking at dedicated 'point-to-point' WiFi systems or are
'ordinary' routers capable of good speeds at the sort of distance I'm
talking about (30 to 50 metres I'd guess) with clear line of sight
visibility between the two. I could probably place both in windows so
there would just be a couple of sheets of glass in the way.

Ordinary WiFi Access points should be fine, placed where they can see
each other through windows. Beware glass with antireflective coatings -
they're usually metal - very thin, but enough to stop RF.

--
Graham J


If your router or device have aerial connectors you could use small Yagi's.

That's a point, I have routers with external aerials so I'll explore
that route. Thanks.


When I had a similar (though 400m) requirement I used two WiFi access
points (they may have also been routers) in Bridge Mode so they would
only see eachother, a WiFi access point at the far end to connect to
and the Pringle/Cantenna home made approach for aerials, which you
might not need but they were fairly easy to make, just keep the aerial
leads short.

The arrangement worked for me (office to home) for ~10yrs and the only
issue I ever had was if the farmer's apple tree at about the half way
point got a bit untidy - he would then give it a trim.

--
AnthonyL

Why do scientists need to BELIEVE in anything?
  #24  
Old April 22nd 20, 01:59 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Martin Brown[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 244
Default Outdoor WiFi link - cheapest way to do 30 metres or so

On 22/04/2020 10:53, Chris Green wrote:
Martin Brown wrote:
On 21/04/2020 20:58, Chris Green wrote:


That's a point, I have routers with external aerials so I'll explore
that route. Thanks.


You may not even need a yagi. 10dB directional gain flat antennae are
relatively cheap and one of them gets me 300m range at close to full
speed (except when it is raining). Line of sight goes through a roof.

Yes, I suspect that two reasonably good access points (or routers)
that can 'see' each other across open space will probably give me an
acceptably fast connection. I'm just trying to work out if I can
re-assign my various 'routers used as access points' and other similar
bits and pieces to dedicate two to providing the bridge. ... or can I
buy two (fairly) cheap access points to do the job?


If you have one of those cheap USB wifi dongles with the detachable
antenna I pointed at give that a whirl at the remote end. I was
pleasantly surprised quite how capable they were range wise.

I had intended to build a cantenna (even ate the Pringles) but ran out
of time and bought a legit flat plate antenna for about 30. The pair of
USB dongles were intended to be sacrificial to get it working. They
ended up as a part of the final (cheap) solution.

A directional antenna is the way to go if it is to a fixed point.

At 30m I'd give it whirl with whatever you have got. I can certainly see
neighbours wifi that are up to 40m away with the closest neighbours
having a stronger signal in my living room than my own local wifi.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #25  
Old April 22nd 20, 04:12 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Ian Jackson[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22
Default Outdoor WiFi link - cheapest way to do 30 metres or so

In message , Martin Brown
writes
On 22/04/2020 09:18, Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Tue, 21 Apr 2020 18:18:12 +0100, Woody
wrote:
[ powerline ethernet links]
I am also a radio amateur and surprisingly it does
not cause me any HF issues whatsoever.

That's interesting. I'm not a radio amateur myself, but have long
suspected that the notion that these things cause interference is a
myth put about by others who are not radio amateurs either.


They will do to some extent but being spread spectrum


They are not so much 'spread spectrum' as 'their spectrum is very wide'.
The wider the RF bandwidth equates directly to higher data throughput.

For radio amateurs, after the early production versions some alleviation
of interference was obtained by obliging the manufacturers to notch out
most of the HF amateur bands (which, of course, reduces their
throughput) - but over the years there have been several moves to allow
a relaxation of the level to which harmful interference is supposed to
be suppressed.

their first order effect is merely to just raise the noise floor ever
so slightly.


Care to put a figure on 'ever so slightly'?











--
Ian
  #26  
Old April 22nd 20, 10:21 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Theo[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 115
Default Outdoor WiFi link - cheapest way to do 30 metres or so

Peter wrote:

Tweed wrote

I can pull 200 Mbit/sec from my Apple AirPort Extreme to my iPad. This is
on 5GHz. But this is within a few metres with only a wooden floor in
between. It does tail off with distance.


5GHz is faster but the range is terrible. In our house it barely makes
it through two wooden floors from the loft, and the speed is
accordingly terrible. Maybe 20mbps.


5GHz wall transmission being poor is a feature - it means you aren't
troubled by interference from your neighbours and get more bandwidth for
yourself.

If coverage is an issue use mesh, or WAP(s) with wired backhaul.

The other option is running ethernet over TV coax, if you have TV
coax. I have that working too, getting 80mbps with "100mbps" units off
Ebay (about 50 quid I think).


I got ~gigabit using Bonded MoCA over CT100. Have the units for sale if
anyone is interested (Motorola MM1000).

Yes that's very good.

However you can also get SWA CAT6 cable.


If I were filling in a trench, I'd be tempted to put some cat6a and some
plastic optical fibre in, possibly a bit of coax too. You never know what
you might use later.

Theo
  #27  
Old April 22nd 20, 10:34 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Richard Tobin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 295
Default Outdoor WiFi link - cheapest way to do 30 metres or so

In article ,
Theo wrote:

If I were filling in a trench, I'd be tempted to put some cat6a and some
plastic optical fibre in, possibly a bit of coax too.


Or just a tube with some string running through it?

-- Richard
  #28  
Old April 23rd 20, 09:24 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Chris Green
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 286
Default Outdoor WiFi link - cheapest way to do 30 metres or so

Theo wrote:

If I were filling in a trench, I'd be tempted to put some cat6a and some
plastic optical fibre in, possibly a bit of coax too. You never know what
you might use later.

OP here, I've been staring at the possible routes between house and
outbuilding and have decided that it won't be too onerous to bury a
cable so that's what I'll probably do in the longer term. I have set
up (see other thread) a WiFi link which is managing something over
50Mb/s so is usable for the moment.

I'll have to bury what I have actually available to me at the moment
which is Cat5e but I will put it in a duct/pipe of some sort and I'll
put a puller cord in there with it. There don't need to be any sharp
bends in the actual buried section.

--
Chris Green

  #29  
Old April 23rd 20, 09:24 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Chris Green
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 286
Default Outdoor WiFi link - cheapest way to do 30 metres or so

Richard Tobin wrote:
In article ,
Theo wrote:

If I were filling in a trench, I'd be tempted to put some cat6a and some
plastic optical fibre in, possibly a bit of coax too.


Or just a tube with some string running through it?

Aha! :-) I just said that.....

--
Chris Green

  #30  
Old April 23rd 20, 09:36 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 334
Default Outdoor WiFi link - cheapest way to do 30 metres or so

Chris Green wrote:
Richard Tobin wrote:
In article ,
Theo wrote:

If I were filling in a trench, I'd be tempted to put some cat6a and some
plastic optical fibre in, possibly a bit of coax too.


Or just a tube with some string running through it?

Aha! :-) I just said that.....



Put in a bigger tube and you can run beer through it!

--
Graham J
 




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
$270 for 3km 4 core outdoor fibre to cable up Brexshit plc David Woolley uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) 4 December 12th 17 12:03 PM
$270 for 3km 4 core outdoor fibre to cable up Brexshit plc R. Mark Clayton[_2_] uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) 1 December 11th 17 12:50 PM
FTTC - 1500 metres too far ? Andrew Benham uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) 27 June 29th 12 08:57 PM
Outdoor network cabling. Peter Crosland uk.comp.home-networking (UK home networking) 0 January 16th 11 08:39 PM
206 metres from exchange Ben uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) 8 May 4th 06 10:11 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 2.4.0
Copyright 2004-2020 BroadbanterBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.