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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

More WiFi Spectrum



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 30th 20, 01:27 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Tweed[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default More WiFi Spectrum

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/asse...ccess-wifi.pdf

Interesting consultation about increasing the amount of Wi-Fi spectrum in
the 5-6GHz region, and to removing some of the existing restrictions.

“What we are proposing - in brief

We are proposing the following measures to improve the Wi-Fi experience for
people and businesses:

• Make the lower 6 GHz band (5925-6425 MHz) available for Wi-Fi. The
release of this spectrum would enable also very low power (VLP) outdoor
use. This would improve performance by reducing congestion in existing
bands caused by large numbers of devices and enable the development of new,
higher bandwidth applications.

• Remove the Dynamic Frequency Selection (DFS) requirements from Wi-Fi
channels in the
5.8 GHz band (5725-5850 MHz). DFS requires a Wi-Fi router to scan for
radars and to switch channel if transmissions are detected. DFS can
therefore represent a constraint for equipment manufacturers and cause
connection delays for Wi-Fi users. The UK is currently the only country to
have imposed these requirements on the 5.8 GHz band. Amending the
requirements on this band could increase its use for indoor Wi-Fi and
reduce congestion in other Wi-Fi bands.”


  #2  
Old April 30th 20, 01:47 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 93
Default More WiFi Spectrum

"Tweed" wrote in message
...
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/asse...ccess-wifi.pdf

Interesting consultation about increasing the amount of Wi-Fi spectrum in
the 5-6GHz region, and to removing some of the existing restrictions.

“What we are proposing - in brief

We are proposing the following measures to improve the Wi-Fi experience
for
people and businesses:

• Make the lower 6 GHz band (5925-6425 MHz) available for Wi-Fi. The
release of this spectrum would enable also very low power (VLP) outdoor
use. This would improve performance by reducing congestion in existing
bands caused by large numbers of devices and enable the development of
new,
higher bandwidth applications.

• Remove the Dynamic Frequency Selection (DFS) requirements from Wi-Fi
channels in the
5.8 GHz band (5725-5850 MHz). DFS requires a Wi-Fi router to scan for
radars and to switch channel if transmissions are detected. DFS can
therefore represent a constraint for equipment manufacturers and cause
connection delays for Wi-Fi users. The UK is currently the only country to
have imposed these requirements on the 5.8 GHz band. Amending the
requirements on this band could increase its use for indoor Wi-Fi and
reduce congestion in other Wi-Fi bands.”


What would be more useful would be to increase the capacity of the 2.4 GHz
band (if that were possible) because this propagates further and is less
attenuated by walls etc. My experience with 5 GHz is that it is ****-hot,
but its range is pathetic: even moving from one room to the next
(plasterboard/stud internal walls) is enough to cause signal strength and
transfer rate to diminish dramatically. This means that in a long thin house
(which ours is) we need an access point in almost every room.

The problem is that with our mesh network, the backhaul comms from one
access point to the next and back to the VDSL router, is by 5 GHz, but we
need 2.4 GHz enabled for older devices such as security cameras and a laptop
which can't speak 5 GHz. This means that the nodes have to be close enough
for one to be able to receive a strong enough 5 GHz signal from its
neighbour, but then they are so close that they can all see each other's 2.4
GHz signal and cannot auto-find enough vacant 2.4 GHz channels.

  #3  
Old April 30th 20, 02:23 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Tweed[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default More WiFi Spectrum

NY wrote:
"Tweed" wrote in message
...
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/asse...ccess-wifi.pdf

Interesting consultation about increasing the amount of Wi-Fi spectrum in
the 5-6GHz region, and to removing some of the existing restrictions.

“What we are proposing - in brief

We are proposing the following measures to improve the Wi-Fi experience
for
people and businesses:

• Make the lower 6 GHz band (5925-6425 MHz) available for Wi-Fi. The
release of this spectrum would enable also very low power (VLP) outdoor
use. This would improve performance by reducing congestion in existing
bands caused by large numbers of devices and enable the development of
new,
higher bandwidth applications.

• Remove the Dynamic Frequency Selection (DFS) requirements from Wi-Fi
channels in the
5.8 GHz band (5725-5850 MHz). DFS requires a Wi-Fi router to scan for
radars and to switch channel if transmissions are detected. DFS can
therefore represent a constraint for equipment manufacturers and cause
connection delays for Wi-Fi users. The UK is currently the only country to
have imposed these requirements on the 5.8 GHz band. Amending the
requirements on this band could increase its use for indoor Wi-Fi and
reduce congestion in other Wi-Fi bands.”


What would be more useful would be to increase the capacity of the 2.4 GHz
band (if that were possible) because this propagates further and is less
attenuated by walls etc. My experience with 5 GHz is that it is ****-hot,
but its range is pathetic: even moving from one room to the next
(plasterboard/stud internal walls) is enough to cause signal strength and
transfer rate to diminish dramatically. This means that in a long thin house
(which ours is) we need an access point in almost every room.

The problem is that with our mesh network, the backhaul comms from one
access point to the next and back to the VDSL router, is by 5 GHz, but we
need 2.4 GHz enabled for older devices such as security cameras and a laptop
which can't speak 5 GHz. This means that the nodes have to be close enough
for one to be able to receive a strong enough 5 GHz signal from its
neighbour, but then they are so close that they can all see each other's 2.4
GHz signal and cannot auto-find enough vacant 2.4 GHz channels.



I don't think that is going to happen any time soon. Anyway, older legacy
devices wouldn't be able to use any additional spectrum, since they
wouldn't know about it. You can get very tiny usb 5GHz Wi-Fi dongles for
not very much money. That may be a way to upgrade the laptop.

On the subject of security cameras, I'm curious as to your use case. I've
often considered buying one, but further thought always turns me against
them. Unless you are extremely bored you can't sit there watching it all
the time, so you are unlikely to stop something in real time. If you did
capture something after the event, what are the practical chances of it
being useful? The only use I have is for a camera over at my 91 year old
mother's house lounge that has face recognition. It sends me a message to
my phone each morning to indicate she has got up. (All with her permission
before someone jumps in about that). Likewise, I can't see the point of
these Ring doorbells. You are either in, where you can come to the door, or
you are out. If you are out and start to engage in a remote conversation
with the caller you are pretty much advertising to a miscreant that you are
out. Not answering the door leaves a certain amount of doubt.
  #4  
Old April 30th 20, 03:48 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 356
Default More WiFi Spectrum

Tweed wrote:

[snip]


On the subject of security cameras ...


I think that if you can run power to a security camera, you can run Cat5
cable.

However, the converse may be that you can run Cat5 cable but not power -
in which case PoE is a good idea.

I'm thinking of gdtting one and setting it up in the garden so I can
watch the birds. So I would need pan & tilt, either good depth of field
or remotely adjustable focus - and ideally zoom. Good definition, so
1280 by 1024 or better, and 10 frames/sec or better. All in a
weatherproof housing. Any recommendations?

--
Graham J
  #5  
Old April 30th 20, 05:29 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 93
Default More WiFi Spectrum

"Tweed" wrote in message
...
On the subject of security cameras, I'm curious as to your use case. I've
often considered buying one, but further thought always turns me against
them. Unless you are extremely bored you can't sit there watching it all
the time, so you are unlikely to stop something in real time. If you did
capture something after the event, what are the practical chances of it
being useful? The only use I have is for a camera over at my 91 year old
mother's house lounge that has face recognition. It sends me a message to
my phone each morning to indicate she has got up. (All with her permission
before someone jumps in about that). Likewise, I can't see the point of
these Ring doorbells. You are either in, where you can come to the door,
or
you are out. If you are out and start to engage in a remote conversation
with the caller you are pretty much advertising to a miscreant that you
are
out. Not answering the door leaves a certain amount of doubt.


Our cameras have movement detection (with variable sensitivity, including
off) and when this is triggered they take a sequence of five photos at
1-second intervals and email those to a chosen address - one that I can
monitor when I'm away from home. It doesn't catch the burglar in real time,
but it is evidence that might help the police catch and convict him
afterwards.

I heard of one person who happened to be looking at the camera and *did* see
a burglar in his house, and was able to alert the police who went round and
caught Burglar Bill in the act of leaving with valuables. He was caught
infra-red handed ;-)

I've found that the movement detection gets a fair amount of false
triggering: a) every time the daylight drops to a level that the infra-red
lights/filter get switched in, and b) when the sun comes out or goes in,
causing a switch between visible and IR.

We really ought to get some newer cameras with better image resolution
(these are only 640x480) and quality (the pictures have a lot of JPEG
artefacts). Ideally we'd get ones that could also be used for watching
wildlife wandering through the garden at night.

We also have Philips Hue lights that can be timed to come on at bedtime +/-
some random time, and can be triggered manually via the Philips Hue app.
When we first got them, we demonstrated to my parents, when we went down to
see them, that we could view the security camera output remotely in real
time and show us turning the room lights on and off - like big kids ;-)

  #6  
Old April 30th 20, 05:34 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
NY[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 93
Default More WiFi Spectrum

"Graham J" wrote in message
...
Tweed wrote:

[snip]


On the subject of security cameras ...


I think that if you can run power to a security camera, you can run Cat5
cable.

However, the converse may be that you can run Cat5 cable but not power -
in which case PoE is a good idea.


It is often easier to run a low-voltage supply from the nearest mains plug,
in situations when running Cat 5 all the way from the router to the camera
is a major undertaking.

I'm thinking of gdtting one and setting it up in the garden so I can watch
the birds. So I would need pan & tilt, either good depth of field or
remotely adjustable focus - and ideally zoom. Good definition, so 1280 by
1024 or better, and 10 frames/sec or better. All in a weatherproof
housing. Any recommendations?


I'd be interested in this too. We get foxes, rabbits, ducks and squirrels in
the garden and it would be interesting to see what they get up to. Something
is leaving wiggly tracks all over the lawn, in fairly narrow "motorways" as
if they all stick to exactly the same route.

  #7  
Old May 1st 20, 10:37 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Roderick Stewart
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 625
Default More WiFi Spectrum

On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 17:34:25 +0100, "NY" wrote:

On the subject of security cameras ...


I think that if you can run power to a security camera, you can run Cat5
cable.

However, the converse may be that you can run Cat5 cable but not power -
in which case PoE is a good idea.


It is often easier to run a low-voltage supply from the nearest mains plug,
in situations when running Cat 5 all the way from the router to the camera
is a major undertaking.

I'm thinking of gdtting one and setting it up in the garden so I can watch
the birds. So I would need pan & tilt, either good depth of field or
remotely adjustable focus - and ideally zoom. Good definition, so 1280 by
1024 or better, and 10 frames/sec or better. All in a weatherproof
housing. Any recommendations?


I'd be interested in this too. We get foxes, rabbits, ducks and squirrels in
the garden and it would be interesting to see what they get up to. Something
is leaving wiggly tracks all over the lawn, in fairly narrow "motorways" as
if they all stick to exactly the same route.


You might want to consider what is called either a "wildlife camera"
or "trail camera" on Amazon. Mostly standalone battery operated
cameras with motion detectors and memory cards, they will capture
still images or short video clips of whatever moves, the files to be
collected later simply by copying from the cards. They seem
extraordinarily popular considering the number of people likely to
have the opportunity to use them for actual wildlife, so I suspect
some are using them to catch burglars too. My daughter and family
recently moved to a house with a large garden and a bit of woodland,
and have been capturing pictures and video of foxes, badgers, mice,
squirrels and various birds with a couple of these cameras. They work
in colour in daylight and revert to infra red images in monochrome
after dark. At least one of them records sound as well.

They'd be no good if you need to watch things in real time, but for
wildlife they seem ideal, and even for catching burglars, recorded
evidence after the event is still worth something - it would all be
"after the event" if presented in court anyway.

Rod.
 




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