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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Email hosted by Elite



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 3rd 20, 09:44 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 356
Default Email hosted by Elite

Does anybody here have an email account hosted by Elite?
See: https://elite.net.uk/

I have one that I set up in May 2016 which I use for a small amount of
personal email traffic. It has worked OK up until 21 June this year.

Since then some emails that I send have bounced - possibly over half.
The non-delivery message is of the form:

Failed Recipient:
Reason: Failed to connect to the recipients mail server. No DNS
information was found for the 'domain.co.uk' domain.
Status: 544 5.4.4 Host not found (not in DNS).

So far this has happened for two different recipients, one an
individual, the other a local newspaper.

I never have any problem from here getting DNS information for either of
these recipient domains.

I can send emails from other accounts (I have several) which are all
delivered successfully.

I've raised a support ticket, but Elite don't seem to have a clue about
what is going wrong.

Has anybody else seen this?

--
Graham J
  #2  
Old July 4th 20, 08:28 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 356
Default Email hosted by Elite

Ray wrote:

[snip]


I'd never heard of Elite until this. But the bounce message suggests their DNS
server is struggling.
If you are using the Elite DNS servers try changing to Googles, for example.


No, I'm not using Elite's DNS server. My internet connection uses the
server provided by my ISP (Zen) or Google's.

Elite only provide mail hosting for me. I connect to them using SMTP
for outgoing messages; so their server relays for me. It is their mail
server which appears to be having trouble with its DNS.

But the technical support at Elite do not appear to understand this or
be able to do anything about it.


--
Graham J
  #3  
Old July 4th 20, 09:16 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Martin Brown[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 247
Default Email hosted by Elite

On 03/07/2020 21:44, Graham J wrote:
Does anybody here have an email account hosted by Elite?
See: https://elite.net.uk/

I have one that I set up in May 2016 which I use for a small amount of
personal email traffic.* It has worked OK up until 21 June this year.

Since then some emails that I send have bounced - possibly over half.
The non-delivery message is of the form:

Failed Recipient:
Reason: Failed to connect to the recipients mail server.* No DNS
information was found for the 'domain.co.uk' domain.
Status: 544 5.4.4 Host not found (not in DNS).

So far this has happened for two different recipients, one an
individual, the other a local newspaper.

I never have any problem from here getting DNS information for either of
these recipient domains.


Something odd about the client software the other end is using?
Blacklisting of an IP range by their DNS server?

If you specified the actual failing domain name(s) then someone could
take a look to see if any of the records have inconsistent values.

My own for nezumi.demon.co.uk are slightly incorrect (thanks Voodoofone)
but since attempts to get them corrected resulted in a phantom mail
record for nesumi.demon.co.uk I gave up in the end. It is all academic
now since Demon subdomains will be exorcised by the end of the month.

I can send emails from other accounts (I have several) which are all
delivered successfully.

I've raised a support ticket, but Elite don't seem to have a clue about
what is going wrong.

Has anybody else seen this?


Host not found is a fairly serious error message. But probably stems
from whatever DNS the *sender* is using to look for your mail service.

I have seen faults in the past where emails to one particular user on my
Demon account (with a very long name) broke the Demon configuration and
incoming emails would bounce around inside the mail cluster for 45
minutes with the header growing before filing "undeliverable".

But the symptoms you describe sound more like the senders email client
cannot find a DNS lookup mail record for you domain. Can they ping it?

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #4  
Old July 4th 20, 10:16 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 356
Default Email hosted by Elite

Martin Brown wrote:

[snip]

Something odd about the client software the other end is using?
Blacklisting of an IP range by their DNS server?


In which case the "bounce" would be about blacklisting.

If you specified the actual failing domain name(s) then someone could
take a look to see if any of the records have inconsistent values.


If I send to it sometimes fails. This is
the local newspaper, so it's unlikely that their DNS settings are silly.

[snip]

Host not found is a fairly serious error message. But probably stems
from whatever DNS the *sender* is using to look for your mail service.


The sender in this case is Elite, relaying the email I send through
their SMTP server. So it is the DNS that Elite are using to find my
recipient which I think is at fault

But the symptoms you describe sound more like the senders email client
cannot find a DNS lookup mail record for you domain. Can they ping it?


No you haven't understood, it is the sender (Elite, relaying for me) not
finding a DNS lookup mail record for my recipient (e.g. archant.co.uk)

I thought my original post was clear without going into to much detail.
But to summarise:

I write an email to
using Outlook.
Outlook sends it to Elite's SMTP server using my authentication.
Elite try to send it to

Elite's DNS lookup sometimes fails, when this happens
a server at Elite sends me a "bounce" message containing:

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """"
Failed Recipient:

Reason: Failed to connect to the recipients mail server. No DNS
information was found for the 'archant.co.uk' domain.
Status: 544 5.4.4 Host not found (not in DNS).
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """"

The Outlook bit is irrelevant, I can get the same failure by using
Elite's Webmail facility.

I repeat; does anybody else here have an email account hosted with
Elite, and have they seen similar failures?


--
Graham J
  #5  
Old July 4th 20, 11:51 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Martin Brown[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 247
Default Email hosted by Elite

On 04/07/2020 10:16, Graham J wrote:
Martin Brown wrote:

[snip]


If you specified the actual failing domain name(s) then someone could
take a look to see if any of the records have inconsistent values.


If I send to it sometimes fails.* This is
the local newspaper, so it's unlikely that their DNS settings are silly.

[snip]

Host not found is a fairly serious error message. But probably stems
from whatever DNS the *sender* is using to look for your mail service.


The sender in this case is Elite, relaying the email I send through
their SMTP server.* So it is the DNS that Elite are using to find my
recipient which I think is at fault


Or their smtp server has some subtle misconfiguration. I have seen
problems where people on different parts of notionally BT email systems
cannot send emails to each other. Not sure why but it occurs sometimes.

But the symptoms you describe sound more like the senders email client
cannot find a DNS lookup mail record for you domain. Can they ping it?


No you haven't understood, it is the sender (Elite, relaying for me) not
finding a DNS lookup mail record for my recipient (e.g. archant.co.uk)


OK. In that case it is the nameserver that they are using which if
smtp.elite.net is a decent guess seems to be damar.pc-intouch.com
For me that resolves to 148.59.209.130

You could try making that your own DNS server for a while and see if the
same fault is reproducibly when you try to ping other destinations.

Just tried it and I get a somewhat unexpected malformed response in
NSLOOKUP when I probe for DNS lookups that I already know the answer to
as an IP4 address. Works fine if I revert to my default or 8.8.8.8

I thought my original post was clear without going into to much detail.
But to summarise:

I write an email to
using Outlook.
Outlook sends it to Elite's SMTP server using my authentication.
Elite try to send it to

Elite's DNS lookup sometimes fails, when this happens
a server at Elite sends me a "bounce" message containing:

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """"
Failed Recipient:

Reason: Failed to connect to the recipients mail server.* No DNS
information was found for the 'archant.co.uk' domain.
Status: 544 5.4.4 Host not found (not in DNS).
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """"


Archant.co.uk is a bit odd in nslookup it comes back with two addresses
that are in entirely different IP blocks. 35.172.94.1 and 100.24.208.97

Maybe one works and one doesn't - that would explain a 50% failure rate.

The Outlook bit is irrelevant, I can get the same failure by using
Elite's Webmail facility.


OK. So we can eliminate the buggy Outlook client from the equation.

I repeat; does anybody else here have an email account hosted with
Elite, and have they seen similar failures?


Never heard of them before. Elite for me is a Beebon game from way back.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #6  
Old July 4th 20, 12:15 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 356
Default Email hosted by Elite

Martin Brown wrote:

[snip]

Archant.co.uk is a bit odd in nslookup it comes back with two addresses
that are in entirely different IP blocks. 35.172.94.1 and 100.24.208.97

Maybe one works and one doesn't - that would explain a 50% failure rate.


When a SMTP server sends email it uses the MX record to find the IP
address of the mail server that receives email for the recipient. These
records a

Archant.co.uk MX eu-smtp-inbound-1.mimecast.com 91.220.42.172
Preference: 10 Answer

Archant.co.uk MX eu-smtp-inbound-2.mimecast.com 91.220.42.201
Preference: 10 Answer

Yes, they are entirely different. And they have the same preference
number. But this is quite normal as a load balancing mechanism; and is
widely used. See also:

bbc.co.uk MX cluster1.eu.messagelabs.com 85.158.142.202 Preference: 10
Answer

bbc.co.uk MX cluster1a.eu.messagelabs.com 18.197.132.224 Preference: 20
Answer

By contrast my other recipient has an MX record as follows:

MX name.mail.protection.outlook.com 104.47.10.36 Preference: 0 Answer

So only one record, and a very well known mail service.

So my view is that the destination domain is not relevant.


--
Graham J
  #8  
Old July 4th 20, 01:46 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 356
Default Email hosted by Elite

Chris Green wrote:
Martin Brown wrote:

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """"
Failed Recipient:
Reason: Failed to connect to the recipients mail server.* No DNS
information was found for the 'archant.co.uk' domain.
Status: 544 5.4.4 Host not found (not in DNS).
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """"


Archant.co.uk is a bit odd in nslookup it comes back with two addresses
that are in entirely different IP blocks. 35.172.94.1 and 100.24.208.97

Maybe one works and one doesn't - that would explain a 50% failure rate.


Won't a mail sender be using the MX record returned for archant.co.uk,
only if that doesn't exist will it try the A record(s). Maybe the
names returned for the MX record (a load of "eu-smtp-*****" names have
DNS problems.


I doubt it. The MX record points to the recipient's mail server. The A
record generally does not, but there is nothing to prevent it doing so.
If I were to host my own mail server I might also have a web page on the
same server; but I would not expect to get a large volume of traffic.

Also the other recipient showing the same problem has MX =
name.mail.protection.outlook.com so that is unlikely to have the same
problems as "eu-smtp-*****"


--
Graham J
  #9  
Old July 9th 20, 06:38 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 356
Default Email hosted by Elite

Graham J wrote:
Chris Green wrote:
Martin Brown wrote:

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """"
Failed Recipient:
Reason: Failed to connect to the recipients mail server.* No DNS
information was found for the 'archant.co.uk' domain.
Status: 544 5.4.4 Host not found (not in DNS).
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """"

Archant.co.uk is a bit odd in nslookup it comes back with two addresses
that are in entirely different IP blocks. 35.172.94.1 and 100.24.208.97

Maybe one works and one doesn't - that would explain a 50% failure rate.


Won't a mail sender be using the MX record returned for archant.co.uk,
only if that doesn't exist will it try the A record(s).* Maybe the
names returned for the MX record (a load of "eu-smtp-*****" names have
DNS problems.


I doubt it.* The MX record points to the recipient's mail server.* The A
record generally does not, but there is nothing to prevent it doing so.
If I were to host my own mail server I might also have a web page on the
same server; but I would not expect to get a large volume of traffic.

Also the other recipient showing the same problem has MX =
name.mail.protection.outlook.com so that is unlikely to have the same
problems as "eu-smtp-*****"


Elite weren't able to solve the problem so I've moved to another provider.


--
Graham J
 




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