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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

when moving to fibre...



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 22nd 20, 11:49 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Recliner[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 92
Default when moving to fibre...

R. Mark Clayton wrote:
On Wednesday, 22 July 2020 10:12:01 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
"Mark Carver" wrote in message
...
On 22/07/2020 08:02, tim... wrote:
Will the old wired BB be turned off?

My Fibre is to be activated on Friday


What sort of fibre ? FTTC, FTTP, or Virgin ?


FTTC


Well then it is still copper or the dire thin aluminium wires from the
cabinet to your place.


Probably not aluminium wires if his current system is ADSL?

  #12  
Old July 22nd 20, 11:51 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Andy Burns[_5_]
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Posts: 555
Default when moving to fibre...

tim... wrote:

Mark Carver wrote:

tim... wrote:

Will the old wired BB be turned off?
My Fibre is to be activated on Friday


What sort of fibre ? FTTC, FTTP, or Virgin ?


FTTC


Your copper phone line only supports voice plus one of ADSL or VDSL at
the same time. At the moment you line will be jumpered through the old
green cabinet as far as both voice and data are concerned to the exchange.

On Friday (or whenever) an engineer will rejumper your line to go via
the new green cabinet, from there the data part will go over fibre back
to the exchange, while the voice part goes back to the old cabinet and
back to the exchange the same as it does now for voice calls.

If your existing router is ADSL only, your internet will be inactive at
that point until you replace it with the VDSL router, which hopefully
will have arrived by then.

  #13  
Old July 22nd 20, 11:54 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Andy Burns[_5_]
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Posts: 555
Default when moving to fibre...

tim... wrote:

Graham J wrote:

If it's FTTC your copper pair will be rerouted through the nearby
green cabinet to the DSLAM for the FTTC service.


So how will the phone still work?


Because the voice and data frequencies are "split" in the new cabinet,
and the voice part will divert back through the old cabinet to the exchange.
  #14  
Old July 22nd 20, 12:47 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
tim...
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Posts: 185
Default when moving to fibre...



"Recliner" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:


"Graham J" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:
Will the old wired BB be turned off?

My Fibre is to be activated on Friday

but I've yet to receive the router

could be without a connection for the whole weekend

(Yes, booking it on a Friday was a silly idea)

If it's FTTC your copper pair will be rerouted through the nearby green
cabinet to the DSLAM for the FTTC service.


So how will the phone still work?


The venerable copper cable to your home currently carries both voice and
data all the way from the exchange, perhaps several kilometres away.


yes, I know

In the
new setup, the signals are split at the exchange,


surely you mean street cabinet

Oh you mean inbound, not outbound.

with voice still using
the old copper all the way.


so the old BB could also still go that way

The data is sent separately over the newer
fibre cable to the roadside cabinet adjacent to the phone junction
cabinet.
The two signals are then recombined and sent the last few hundred metres
over the old copper cable to your home. So your phone sees no difference.


As I thought would happen

so there is still a wired connection all the way to the exchange that could
support a BB connection


The distance that the data has to travel over the old copper cable from
the
street cabinet to your home will determine the speeds you get,


it's advertised as up to 36, they suggested a minimum expected of 30.

as will the
condition of that cable (the insulation and junctions). So, if the
cabinets
are right outside your front door,


no idea where the street cabinet is (I can't see any cabinets nearby, I
guess its under a manhole cover)

with new cable connecting you, you'll
get much higher speeds than if they're 500m away, connected by 1930s
telephone cables.


property was only built 1980 something ;-)



  #15  
Old July 22nd 20, 01:08 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_3_]
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Posts: 356
Default when moving to fibre...

Recliner wrote:

[snip]


Probably not aluminium wires if his current system is ADSL?


Certainly can be. Locally Openreach technicians are forever fixing
broken wires that are inadvertently damaged by their colleagues and when
asked they tell me it's because some are aluminium, but their records
tell them they they are all copper.



--
Graham J
  #16  
Old July 22nd 20, 01:26 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 356
Default when moving to fibre...

tim... wrote:

[snip]

In the
new setup, the signals are split at the exchange,


surely you mean street cabinet

Oh you mean inbound, not outbound.

*with voice still using
the old copper all the way.


so the old BB could also still go that way


Only for dial-up, but I doubt that exists any more ....

The data is sent separately over the newer
fibre cable to the roadside cabinet adjacent to the phone junction
cabinet.
The two signals are then recombined and sent the last few hundred metres
over the old copper cable to your home. So your phone sees no difference.


As I thought would happen

so there is still a wired connection all the way to the exchange that
could support a BB connection


That connection is rerouted from your home into the new green cabinet
where it picks up the broadband signal. Then a filter to stop the
broadband signal going the "wrong way" to the exchange, then wires to
the old green cabinet and back to the exchange. So if the ADSL service
in the exchange is not disabled its signals get as far as the filter but
not to you.

Unless the Openreach technician does something wrong, which is not
unheard of.

Sometimes a single large cabinet does both jobs; these are installed
where there never prveiously was a green cabinet, often at the edge of a
small rural village.

The distance that the data has to travel over the old copper cable
from the
street cabinet to your home will determine the speeds you get,


it's advertised as up to 36, they suggested a minimum expected of 30.


So probably from
https://www.increasebroadbandspeed.co.uk/2013/chart-bt-fttc-vdsl2-speed-against-distance
your green cabint is about 750m distant.

as will the
condition of that cable (the insulation and junctions). So, if the
cabinets
are right outside your front door,


no idea where the street cabinet is (I can't see any cabinets nearby, I
guess its under a manhole cover)


Unlikely

See https://kitz.co.uk/adsl/cabinet-lookup.htm or

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/threads/bt-fttc-cabinet-location.18668851/



with new cable connecting you, you'll
get much higher speeds than if they're 500m away, connected by 1930s
telephone cables.


property was only built 1980 something ;-)





--
Graham J
  #17  
Old July 22nd 20, 03:09 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Martin Brown[_2_]
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Posts: 247
Default when moving to fibre...

On 22/07/2020 10:20, tim... wrote:


"Graham J" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:
Will the old wired BB be turned off?

My Fibre is to be activated on Friday

but I've yet to receive the router

could be without a connection for the whole weekend

(Yes, booking it on a Friday was a silly idea)


If it's FTTC your copper pair will be rerouted through the nearby
green cabinet to the DSLAM for the FTTC service.


So how will the phone still work?


The copper wires still go all the way back to the exchange for voice.

If your existing router will workk with VDSL it might reboot itself
and carry on.


I've been told by "the system" - it won't work

How it knows that, I have no idea.


They "know" what model of router they last sent you (according to them).
I have a bunch kicking around. My most recent ISP supplied router is
about 3 years old now was capable of either ADSL or VDSL so it might be
worth having a look in your routers config options past the warning page
where it says "here be dragons" enter at your peril. Some models require
you to have a fibre modem plugged into the WAN port on your router.

They did supply the old router, but they can't exclude the possibility
that I have stopped using it and bought my own, can they?

I assumed that they were fundamentally different, but you are saying not.


Recent kit tends to be able to do either.

But given that you've asked for a new router then probably your
existing router does not support VDSL.


I was told I needed a new one.


Might or might not be true. They tend to send you a new one if your
official ISP supplied router is way older than their corporate memory.
Their tech support scripts only cover the most recent few models of
router. Mine was so old it wasn't a router - it was a pure ADSL modem.

Figure out in advance how to use your mobile phone as a hotspot to cover
any gaps in connectivity - that way you won't find yourself in bind
where the job status page is on a weblink that you can no longer read.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #18  
Old July 22nd 20, 04:03 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
tim...
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 185
Default when moving to fibre...



"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...
On 22/07/2020 10:20, tim... wrote:


"Graham J" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:
Will the old wired BB be turned off?

My Fibre is to be activated on Friday

but I've yet to receive the router

could be without a connection for the whole weekend

(Yes, booking it on a Friday was a silly idea)

If it's FTTC your copper pair will be rerouted through the nearby green
cabinet to the DSLAM for the FTTC service.


So how will the phone still work?


The copper wires still go all the way back to the exchange for voice.

If your existing router will workk with VDSL it might reboot itself and
carry on.


I've been told by "the system" - it won't work

How it knows that, I have no idea.


They "know" what model of router they last sent you (according to them). I
have a bunch kicking around. My most recent ISP supplied router is about 3
years old now was capable of either ADSL or VDSL so it might be worth
having a look in your routers config options past the warning page where
it says "here be dragons" enter at your peril. Some models require you to
have a fibre modem plugged into the WAN port on your router.


Oh

Current configuration is: ADSL
Use this button to switch to Fibre.
The router will be reset to factory settings.
In order to use this router for Fibre, you will need to connect an
OpenReach modem to Ethernet port 4

So, is that what they are sending me?

The modem?

They did supply the old router, but they can't exclude the possibility
that I have stopped using it and bought my own, can they?

I assumed that they were fundamentally different, but you are saying not.


Recent kit tends to be able to do either.

But given that you've asked for a new router then probably your existing
router does not support VDSL.


I was told I needed a new one.


Might or might not be true. They tend to send you a new one if your
official ISP supplied router is way older than their corporate memory.
Their tech support scripts


It was all online

click this button for X this other one for Y.

only cover the most recent few models of router. Mine was so old it wasn't
a router - it was a pure ADSL modem.

Figure out in advance how to use your mobile phone as a hotspot to cover
any gaps in connectivity


I'm on PAYG

I rely upon connecting my phone to BB with Wiffy not to get a stupid bill

- that way you won't find yourself in bind where the job status page is on
a weblink that you can no longer read.


I'll just ring up and get someone to talk me through it

If it doesn't come by tomorrow.



  #19  
Old July 22nd 20, 04:17 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Andy Burns[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 555
Default when moving to fibre...

tim... wrote:

Current configuration is: ADSL
Use this button to switch to Fibre.
The router will be reset to factory settings.
In order to use this router for Fibre, you will need to connect an
OpenReach modem to Ethernet port 4

So, is that what they are sending me?


No, openreach haven't supplied modems for years, most likely it'll be a
Plusnet Hub1 (re-badged BT HomeHub 5a)
  #20  
Old July 22nd 20, 11:53 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Theo[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 119
Default when moving to fibre...

Andy Burns wrote:
Your copper phone line only supports voice plus one of ADSL or VDSL at
the same time. At the moment you line will be jumpered through the old
green cabinet as far as both voice and data are concerned to the exchange.

On Friday (or whenever) an engineer will rejumper your line to go via
the new green cabinet, from there the data part will go over fibre back
to the exchange, while the voice part goes back to the old cabinet and
back to the exchange the same as it does now for voice calls.


That's likely the case for the OP on Plusnet, but just to note that
Openreach have a product called SOGEA where there is no voice jumper to the
exchange (they may leave an existing one in place but it is unused). The
ISP provides voice service via a phone socket on the router, which runs as
VOIP over the VDSL broadband connection. Sky among others use this for new
orders in some regions.

This is part of Openreach's plan for decommissioning the analogue voice
network, by moving to all-data connections. The exchange is then no longer
handling voice calls - they're all in VOIP soft-switches.

Theo
 




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