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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

FTTP question



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 4th 20, 08:51 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 369
Default FTTP question

There are several third-party FTTP providers: for example Rutland
Telecom, County Broadband near Colchester, Gigaclear, Hyperoptic ...
generally these suppliers have dug trenches in the pavements to install
their fibres.

If any of thee suppliers were to go broke, who would own the fibres
installed in the ground? Do we expect to see such providers forced
out of business just to get access to the installed fibre?

If I were to buy a house in one of the areas served by such a provider
and the house was not already connected, how easy it is to connect to
the fibre in the street? Are there junction boxes beside each property?

Does anybody out there know?


--
Graham J
  #2  
Old August 4th 20, 09:27 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Andy Burns[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 563
Default FTTP question

Graham J wrote:

suppliers have dug trenches in the pavements to install their fibres.

If any of thee suppliers were to go broke, who would own the fibres
installed in the ground?


Whoever bought them from the administrators/liquidators? In the
unlikely event that no one did, presume they go to The Crown.
  #3  
Old August 4th 20, 10:16 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Mark Undrill[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default FTTP question

On 04/08/2020 08:51, Graham J wrote:
snip


If I were to buy a house in one of the areas served by such a provider
and the house was not already connected, how easy it is to connect to
the fibre in the street? Are there junction boxes beside each property?

Does anybody out there know?


Each of the providers do things differently. Gigaclear do put connection
points in the road outside every property. I don't know what happens
with new builds though.

--
Mark
  #4  
Old August 4th 20, 11:10 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Theo[_2_]
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Posts: 120
Default FTTP question

Graham J wrote:
There are several third-party FTTP providers: for example Rutland
Telecom, County Broadband near Colchester, Gigaclear, Hyperoptic ...
generally these suppliers have dug trenches in the pavements to install
their fibres.

If any of thee suppliers were to go broke, who would own the fibres
installed in the ground? Do we expect to see such providers forced
out of business just to get access to the installed fibre?


About 30 years ago every town had its own cable TV franchise, who were
merrily digging up the streets to lay coax.

Over the intervening time all those cable franchises have got consolidated
into one - Virgin Media. Many of the local differences in installations
have got smoothed away as kit was upgraded to a common standard.

Going back a lot further, many railway lines were originally built by
independent companies, raising capital from local and national investors.
The line got built, the building company often went bankrupt, and some
bigger outfit bought up the assets and continued to run the service.

I would expect a similar thing to happen here. All these upstarts are
happily taking the installation subsidy for now, but eventually they'll
reach steady-state. Then, assuming the price is right, they'll be targets
for acquisition for a larger company. If the price isn't right they'll
either stay indepedent, or go bust and then someone will acquire the assets
and customer base at fire-sale prices. Given that the running costs of FTTP
are relatively low I can't see much risk of connections being abandoned once
they're operational.

If I were to buy a house in one of the areas served by such a provider
and the house was not already connected, how easy it is to connect to
the fibre in the street? Are there junction boxes beside each property?


It depends on the network. Sometimes there's a junction box in the street
per property, sometimes it's further away, sometimes it's poled along the
road.

I would expect you can get a connection after the blanket rollout, although
it might depend on the costs involved. For a long time Virgin were in 'milk
the assets' mode and they wouldn't pay for any civil engineering even if
it was just a case of running a few more metres down the street, or wiring
up a close of new-builds to an already-cabled street. If you have a
particular house in mind, I'd ask the provider before buying.

Theo
  #5  
Old August 4th 20, 11:25 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
R. Mark Clayton[_2_]
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Posts: 717
Default FTTP question

On Tuesday, 4 August 2020 09:27:29 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
Graham J wrote:

suppliers have dug trenches in the pavements to install their fibres.

If any of thee suppliers were to go broke, who would own the fibres
installed in the ground?


Whoever bought them from the administrators/liquidators? In the
unlikely event that no one did, presume they go to The Crown.


In England - The Crown, Duchy of Lancaster or Duchy of Cornwall depending on location. Not sure in Scotland - feudal title was abolished in the noughties - possibly the local council because the fibre was abandoned in the ground in adopted roads.

Not sure about fibre, but the cable companies installed a connection point outside every house they passed.
  #6  
Old August 4th 20, 05:54 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Peter Johnson[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9
Default FTTP question

On 04 Aug 2020 11:10:36 +0100 (BST), Theo
wrote:

For a long time Virgin were in 'milk
the assets' mode and they wouldn't pay for any civil engineering even if
it was just a case of running a few more metres down the street, or wiring
up a close of new-builds to an already-cabled street.


I live in one of six houses that were in a cable-free zone because
when the area was cabled the company required approval from the six
householders to route the cable down the shared block-paved drive.
Approval was not forthcoming because at least one of the occupiers
couldn't see any value in having numerous TV channels, all that was on
offer at the time.[1]
About three years ago three of the houses had changed hands and the
new owners wanted Virgin. On their agreeing to take the full cable
package Virgin installed, on three different occasions, cable to the
houses. Two of the installs were done without interfering with the
drive, which could have been done 20 years ago. The third one, which
could also have avoided the drive, didn't, and there are a few blocks
dipped where the cable runs.
[1] I agreed to the installation, not because I was interested in
numerous TV channels but because I thought it might something useful
to have at a later date, which turned out to be the case. Still not
signed up to Virgin though.
  #7  
Old August 4th 20, 09:36 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Vir Campestris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 284
Default FTTP question

On 04/08/2020 11:10, Theo wrote:


About 30 years ago every town had its own cable TV franchise, who were
merrily digging up the streets to lay coax.

Over the intervening time all those cable franchises have got consolidated
into one - Virgin Media. Many of the local differences in installations
have got smoothed away as kit was upgraded to a common standard.


snip

I used to live in Bracknell (It's OK, I've escaped!) in a corner of the
town where Virgin hadn't taken it over.

The cable system gradually decayed, and finally someone with a JCB
managed to knock down the aerial tower. So we all put aerials up,
despite the prohibition.

There wasn't enough revenue for Virgin to wire it up to their network.

Just to add to it the 'phone wire was all aluminium, so ADSL was crap.

The final straw was being in a valley equidistant between Hannington and
Crystal Palace, so even the TV was poor - needed a great big Yagi _and_
a masthead amp.

Andy
  #8  
Old August 5th 20, 12:39 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Brian Gregory[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 19
Default FTTP question

On 04/08/2020 21:36, Vir Campestris wrote:
The final straw was being in a valley equidistant between Hannington and
Crystal Palace, so even the TV was poor - needed a great big Yagi _and_
a masthead amp.


But Crystal Palace is 4 times more powerful than Hannington; so the real
difficult decision is when the distance from Crystal Palace is twice the
distance from Hannington.

--
Brian Gregory (in England).
  #9  
Old August 5th 20, 08:49 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Mark Carver
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 482
Default FTTP question

On 05/08/2020 00:39, Brian Gregory wrote:
On 04/08/2020 21:36, Vir Campestris wrote:
The final straw was being in a valley equidistant between Hannington
and Crystal Palace, so even the TV was poor - needed a great big Yagi
_and_ a masthead amp.


But Crystal Palace is 4 times more powerful than Hannington; so the
real difficult decision is when the distance from Crystal Palace is
twice the distance from Hannington.

That's 6dB. There are lots of other variables that mean that figure
can't be taken at face value

Neither CP or Hannington (or any tx site) has a 'flat' HRP. Some
frequencies in some directions will differ in published ERP

One path will be more obscured than another

CP uses lower frequencies than Hannington, so propagation and feeder
losses are lower

In short the only way to decide is to get on the roof, and make real
world measurements
  #10  
Old August 5th 20, 09:15 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Bob Eager[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 90
Default FTTP question

On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 21:36:42 +0100, Vir Campestris wrote:

On 04/08/2020 11:10, Theo wrote:


About 30 years ago every town had its own cable TV franchise, who were
merrily digging up the streets to lay coax.

Over the intervening time all those cable franchises have got
consolidated into one - Virgin Media. Many of the local differences in
installations have got smoothed away as kit was upgraded to a common
standard.


snip

I used to live in Bracknell (It's OK, I've escaped!) in a corner of the
town where Virgin hadn't taken it over.

The cable system gradually decayed, and finally someone with a JCB
managed to knock down the aerial tower. So we all put aerials up,
despite the prohibition.

There wasn't enough revenue for Virgin to wire it up to their network.

Just to add to it the 'phone wire was all aluminium, so ADSL was crap.

The final straw was being in a valley equidistant between Hannington and
Crystal Palace, so even the TV was poor - needed a great big Yagi _and_
a masthead amp.


Someone I know in Bracknell has a dish on his roof, with line of sight to
a data centre. He gets quite good speeds!
 




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