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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Fritz!Box 7530 inconsistent behavior



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 17th 20, 08:36 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 369
Default Fritz!Box 7530 inconsistent behavior

I've never used one of these before.

Friend has FTTC. Before her router arrived I tested the FTT connection
with my Technicolor TG588v v2 - worked perfectly.

The Fritz!Box 7530 duly arrived. I plugged it, it configured itself via
TR-069 (from Zen); and appears to work OK, Friend can browse websites,
can ping things on the internet, speedtests show the expected speeds,
router shows the correct short distance to green cabinet, appropriate
SNR margins, zero errors.

But, when I ping it from my home, or use F8Lure to monitor the
reliability of the connection, pings fail about 1 time in 10, and F8Lure
shows what looks like a very unreliable connection. By contrast pings
and F8Lure to the Technicolor TG588v v2 gave consistently good results.

Fritz!Box 7530 arrived with firmware 07.13. Version 07.20 is available,
so I upgraded to that. Exactly similar ping responses.

Powered off Fritz!Box 7530. When powered on, no replies to ping at all.
Google suggested Internet - Filters - Lists - Global filter settings -
Clear stealth mode. But it's already clear; so set it; and click Apply.
Now replies to ping with similar failure rate as before.

Today I get my friend to Clear stealth mode - replies stop as before.
Then disable the option "Teredo filter enabled". Some replies - then
nothing. So revert to previous settings: enable stealth mode, enable
Teredo filter. No ping replies whatever since then.

I don't understand this inconsistency. Is the router faulty? Is this
the expected behaviour for this device? Is there another operation
(such as power off/on) required after each "Appply" to complete the changes?

Given that my friend's view of its performance is good, I can't as yet
complain to Zen. But the unreliability of ping responses makes it
difficult to identify future problems.


--
Graham J
  #2  
Old August 17th 20, 09:35 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Brian Gregory[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 19
Default Fritz!Box 7530 inconsistent behavior

On 17/08/2020 20:36, Graham J wrote:
I've never used one of these before.

Friend has FTTC.* Before her router arrived I tested the FTT connection
with my Technicolor TG588v v2 - worked perfectly.

The Fritz!Box 7530 duly arrived.* I plugged it, it configured itself via
TR-069 (from Zen); and appears to work OK,* Friend can browse websites,
can ping things on the internet, speedtests show the expected speeds,
router shows the correct short distance to green cabinet, appropriate
SNR margins, zero errors.

But, when I ping it from my home, or use F8Lure to monitor the
reliability of the connection, pings fail about 1 time in 10, and F8Lure
shows what looks like a very unreliable connection.* By contrast pings
and F8Lure to the Technicolor TG588v v2 gave consistently good results.

Fritz!Box 7530 arrived with firmware 07.13. Version 07.20 is available,
so I upgraded to that. Exactly similar ping responses.

Powered off Fritz!Box 7530.* When powered on, no replies to ping at all.
*Google suggested Internet - Filters - Lists - Global filter settings -
Clear stealth mode.* But it's already clear; so set it; and click Apply.
*Now replies to ping with similar failure rate as before.

Today I get my friend to Clear stealth mode - replies stop as before.
Then disable the option "Teredo filter enabled".* Some replies - then
nothing.* So revert to previous settings: enable stealth mode, enable
Teredo filter.* No ping replies whatever since then.

I don't understand this inconsistency.* Is the router faulty?* Is this
the expected behaviour for this device?* Is there another operation
(such as power off/on) required after each "Appply" to complete the
changes?

Given that my friend's view of its performance is good, I can't as yet
complain to Zen.* But the unreliability of ping responses makes it
difficult to identify future problems.



Stealth mode is the norm these days, at least for IPv4, maybe not always
for IPv6 and means you don't respond to anything (including pings) from
outside.

So as far as I understand it you ought to be able to ping the FritzBox
router only if stealth mode is off.

Maybe the setting is intermittently broken in the FritzBox.

I discarded the FritzBox Zen sent me because I already had suitable
equipment.

I was also put off becausse the translation from German(?) to English in
the FritzBox documentation was bafflingly weird such that it needed work
to even figure out what the settings that are there do.

For instance port forwarding seems, as far as I can see, to be called
port sharing on the FritzBox!

--
Brian Gregory (in England).
  #3  
Old August 17th 20, 09:43 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 369
Default Fritz!Box 7530 inconsistent behavior

Brian Gregory wrote:
On 17/08/2020 20:36, Graham J wrote:
I've never used one of these before.

Friend has FTTC.* Before her router arrived I tested the FTT
connection with my Technicolor TG588v v2 - worked perfectly.

The Fritz!Box 7530 duly arrived.* I plugged it, it configured itself
via TR-069 (from Zen); and appears to work OK,* Friend can browse
websites, can ping things on the internet, speedtests show the
expected speeds, router shows the correct short distance to green
cabinet, appropriate SNR margins, zero errors.

But, when I ping it from my home, or use F8Lure to monitor the
reliability of the connection, pings fail about 1 time in 10, and
F8Lure shows what looks like a very unreliable connection.* By
contrast pings and F8Lure to the Technicolor TG588v v2 gave
consistently good results.

Fritz!Box 7530 arrived with firmware 07.13. Version 07.20 is
available, so I upgraded to that. Exactly similar ping responses.

Powered off Fritz!Box 7530.* When powered on, no replies to ping at
all. **Google suggested Internet - Filters - Lists - Global filter
settings - Clear stealth mode.* But it's already clear; so set it; and
click Apply. **Now replies to ping with similar failure rate as before.

Today I get my friend to Clear stealth mode - replies stop as before.
Then disable the option "Teredo filter enabled".* Some replies - then
nothing.* So revert to previous settings: enable stealth mode, enable
Teredo filter.* No ping replies whatever since then.

I don't understand this inconsistency.* Is the router faulty?* Is this
the expected behaviour for this device?* Is there another operation
(such as power off/on) required after each "Appply" to complete the
changes?

Given that my friend's view of its performance is good, I can't as yet
complain to Zen.* But the unreliability of ping responses makes it
difficult to identify future problems.



Stealth mode is the norm these days, at least for IPv4, maybe not always
for IPv6 and means you don't respond to anything (including pings) from
outside.

So as far as I understand it you ought to be able to ping the FritzBox
router only if stealth mode is off.

Maybe the setting is intermittently broken in the FritzBox.

I discarded the FritzBox Zen sent me because I already had suitable
equipment.

I was also put off because the translation from German(?) to English in
the FritzBox documentation was bafflingly weird such that it needed work
to even figure out what the settings that are there do.

For instance port forwarding seems, as far as I can see, to be called
port sharing on the FritzBox!


My German is at the level of asking for a beer or a hot dog with
mustard. But I did wonder whether the English explanations suffer from
being translations. But that doesn't account for the inconsistent
behaviour; if the behaviour had been consistent I'm sure I would have
tolerated the quaint translations.



--
Graham J
  #4  
Old August 18th 20, 08:24 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 369
Default Fritz!Box 7530 inconsistent behavior

Graham J wrote:

[snip]


Today I get my friend to Clear stealth mode - replies stop as before.
Then disable the option "Teredo filter enabled".* Some replies - then
nothing.* So revert to previous settings: enable stealth mode, enable
Teredo filter.* No ping replies whatever since then.



This was at about 6:3p pm yesterday.

Today, F8Lure shows ping replies starting at about 8 am. Pings from my
PC are back to replies about 9 times out of 10.

However, this apparently is a known problem: the chap who runs the
F8Lure website has seen the same.


--
Graham J
  #5  
Old August 18th 20, 12:09 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
grinch
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 107
Default Fritz!Box 7530 inconsistent behavior

On 18/08/2020 08:24, Graham J wrote:
Graham J wrote:

snip


So revert to previous settings: enable stealth mode, enable
Teredo filter.* No ping replies whatever since then.



Surely this is what you want,it makes the life of the script kids
slightly more difficult.

This was at about 6:3p pm yesterday.

Today, F8Lure shows ping replies starting at about 8 am.* Pings from my
PC are back to replies about 9 times out of 10.


I fail to see why you think this is a problem ,what's probably happening
is the router is seeing your unnecessary ICMP traffic as a treat and
responding by blocking it. Which is a good.

ICMP is unnecessary traffic anyway and proves nothing only that the
device is there. My Cisco has an ACL to block all incoming IP4 ICMP as
standard.

Your friend is not having any network issues by your own admission so
why waste Zen's time by reporting a non fault. A little knowledge is a
dangerous thing.

However, this apparently is a known problem: the chap who runs the
F8Lure website has seen the same.



  #6  
Old August 18th 20, 01:11 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 369
Default Fritz!Box 7530 inconsistent behavior

grinch wrote:
On 18/08/2020 08:24, Graham J wrote:
Graham J wrote:

snip


*So revert to previous settings: enable stealth mode, enable
Teredo filter.* No ping replies whatever since then.



Surely this is what you want,it makes the life of the script kids
slightly more difficult.


No. Every other router I've met either fails to respond to pings, or
has an explicit option to allow it. When allowed, such routers respond
reliably.

Graphing responses to ping is a very useful diagnostic for intermittent
connections, PCs sending spam, and similar poor performance issues.

ICMP is unnecessary traffic anyway and proves nothing only that the
device is there. My Cisco has an ACL to block all incoming IP4 ICMP as
standard.


But you can edit the ACL to allow specific incoming pings; and if you
did so you would expect it to work reliably and consistently.

Your friend is not having any network issues by your own admission so
why waste Zen's time by reporting a non fault. A little knowledge is a
dangerous thing.


True, no network issues.

But her HP Envy printer sometimes fails to connect with HP to tell them
how many pages it's printed so HP know when to send her more ink; and
this function has worked until the upgrade to FTTC required the change
to use the Fritz!Box 7530.

I'm not saying the issues are cause and effect, yet, but the
inconsistent behaviour to ping is worrying. I will swap to a different
router later today and see if the HP problem goes away.


--
Graham J
  #7  
Old August 18th 20, 03:05 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
grinch
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 107
Default Fritz!Box 7530 inconsistent behavior

On 18/08/2020 13:11, Graham J wrote:


But her HP Envy printer sometimes fails to connect with HP to tell them
how many pages it's printed so HP know when to send her more ink; and
this function has worked until the upgrade to FTTC required the change
to use the Fritz!Box 7530.

I'm not saying the issues are cause and effect, yet, but the
inconsistent behaviour to ping is worrying.* I will swap to a different
router later today and see if the HP problem goes away.


I might have an idea why . The firewalls on simple routers just allow
all TCP/UDP ports out via NAT. Perhaps the fritzbox has a better
firewall and only allows out the usual suspects.

Try adding a deny all rule at the end of the firewall rules with a log
statement (assuming it can do this) the firewall log will tell you what
port the HP printer is trying to use ,then create a rule to allow that.

Alternatively port span a switch and use wireshark to packet sniff to
find the port.

Let me know how you get on
  #8  
Old August 18th 20, 05:50 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 369
Default Fritz!Box 7530 inconsistent behavior

grinch wrote:
On 18/08/2020 13:11, Graham J wrote:


But her HP Envy printer sometimes fails to connect with HP to tell
them how many pages it's printed so HP know when to send her more ink;
and this function has worked until the upgrade to FTTC required the
change to use the Fritz!Box 7530.

I'm not saying the issues are cause and effect, yet, but the
inconsistent behaviour to ping is worrying.* I will swap to a
different router later today and see if the HP problem goes away.


I might have an idea why . The firewalls on simple routers just allow
all TCP/UDP ports out via NAT. Perhaps the fritzbox has a better
firewall and only allows out the usual suspects.

Try adding a deny all rule at the end of the firewall rules with a log
statement (assuming it can do this) the firewall log will tell you what
port the HP printer is trying to use ,then create a rule to allow that.

Alternatively port span a switch and use wireshark to packet sniff to
find the port.

Let me know how you get on



Router swapped. Printer prints OK. Now communicating with HP, but only
after power off/on.

Have the Fritz!Box 7530 so I can learn about it, in particular whether I
can log what the firewall does and whether I can create rules for it.

--
Graham J
  #9  
Old August 19th 20, 11:25 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
grinch
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 107
Default Fritz!Box 7530 inconsistent behavior

On 18/08/2020 17:50, Graham J wrote:


Have the Fritz!Box 7530 so I can learn about it, in particular whether I
can log what the firewall does and whether I can create rules for it.


Good luck with that,I spent a whole cup of coffee on the Internet
looking for firewall documentation and all I could find was port
forwarding, even on the Fritzbox site.

They would appear to be designed to protect the great unwashed from the
internet automatically and prevent them from getting hacked. Having
spent 20 years working for ISP's I can understand this, don't give them
something they can break.

Good luck ,Fritzboxen do have a very good reputation for security and
specification ,but they are not cheap.


A little bedtime reading

https://assets.avm.de/files/docs/fri..._man_en_GB.pdf
  #10  
Old August 19th 20, 11:57 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 369
Default Fritz!Box 7530 inconsistent behavior

grinch wrote:

[snip]



A little bedtime reading

https://assets.avm.de/files/docs/fri..._man_en_GB.pdf



Yes, I spent some time reading that last weekend.

--
Graham J
 




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