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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

5G will let users ditch fixed-line home broadband, says Three


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  #11  
Old November 9th 18, 01:23 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Alfred[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11
Default 5G will let users ditch fixed-line home broadband, says Three

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/bills-an...ovide-service/

AIUI if you move you can transfer the contract.


In they case of Virgin they only cover 50% of the country so you may
move to an area that has no Virgin coverage, but there's more than
that like people moving to HMOs or students moving back to their
parents home where they don't need a broadband contract of their own
anymore. The only people who seem to get away from termination fees
are armed forces personnel.

https://www.forces.net/news/internet...onnel-scrapped
  #12  
Old November 9th 18, 12:25 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
7[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 512
Default 5G will let users ditch fixed-line home broadband, says Three

On 08/11/2018 21:04, R. Mark Clayton wrote:

"5G will let users ditch fixed-line home broadband, says Three"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-46127712

Actually, out here in northern Scotland, 4G could already make my
landline redundant if only there was a suitably priced plan that gave me
unlimited or nearly so download limits, but AFAIAA there isn't.


Fake news. Oxygen absorption gives 300m range. So each radio modem needs
fiber optic modems 300m apart running at 10GHz. May as well roll out
Internet of fiber first. Connect everyone with $20 SFP 10gbit symmetric
fiber modules at higher speed than 5G, and cheaply at $150 per one off
connection fee, without a 250,000 5G radio modem!


You are an absolute mine of mis-information.

Typically 5G operates at 15GHz, whose propagation will be similar to KU band satellite transmissions. I can easily receive very weak (35 - 150W - similar to mobile base stations - 25W) signals at 12G750Hz from 40,000,000m away, with the last several miles through the atmosphere.

Presumably you need a 5G radio modem at each end. Even crApple will have trouble selling phones at 250k each. You seem to have given the development cost or more likely some figure you just made up.



You are a absolute fsckwit when it comes to broadband/telecum knowledge.

We can receive signals from Mars. But what is the *fscking* bandwidth of
this signal? And what is the signal to noise ratio?

If its 5G bandwidth, then you best be within the 300m range.
And if more than several hundred users sharing the same radio modem,
then you better hope that radio modems are 100m apart otherwise,
you have exactly nothing.


  #13  
Old November 9th 18, 12:50 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
R. Mark Clayton[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 533
Default 5G will let users ditch fixed-line home broadband, says Three

On Friday, 9 November 2018 11:25:39 UTC, 7 wrote:
On 08/11/2018 21:04, R. Mark Clayton wrote:

"5G will let users ditch fixed-line home broadband, says Three"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-46127712

Actually, out here in northern Scotland, 4G could already make my
landline redundant if only there was a suitably priced plan that gave me
unlimited or nearly so download limits, but AFAIAA there isn't.

Fake news. Oxygen absorption gives 300m range. So each radio modem needs
fiber optic modems 300m apart running at 10GHz. May as well roll out
Internet of fiber first. Connect everyone with $20 SFP 10gbit symmetric
fiber modules at higher speed than 5G, and cheaply at $150 per one off
connection fee, without a 250,000 5G radio modem!


You are an absolute mine of mis-information.

Typically 5G operates at 15GHz, whose propagation will be similar to KU band satellite transmissions. I can easily receive very weak (35 - 150W - similar to mobile base stations - 25W) signals at 12G750Hz from 40,000,000m away, with the last several miles through the atmosphere.

Presumably you need a 5G radio modem at each end. Even crApple will have trouble selling phones at 250k each. You seem to have given the development cost or more likely some figure you just made up.



You are a absolute fsckwit when it comes to broadband/telecum knowledge.

We can receive signals from Mars.


True, but you do need a big dish for that.

But what is the *fscking* bandwidth of this signal?


One gets about 2,000 channels simultaneously off Astra 28E of around 6 - 10Mbps each - so overall aggregate bandwidth around 20Gbps. Even $ky will sell you a receiver that can show / record four at once.

And what is the signal to noise ratio?


I don't have a figure, but plenty good enough to get a good picture, even in heavy rain.


If its 5G bandwidth, then you best be within the 300m range.


Nope, similar spacing to 4G probably, with some nano-cells in busy places like transport hubs.

And if more than several hundred users sharing the same radio modem,
then you better hope that radio modems are 100m apart otherwise,
you have exactly nothing.


You really do NOT understand statistical multiplexing - do you?

Only a few of them will be playing hi-res games at any one time. Most of them will not even be doing anything... Aggregate over say 500 users extremely unlikely to exceed 10Gbps - equivalent to an average 20Mbps - or roughly everyone watching HD video plus some back ground activity.

So in suburban areas all that would be needed would be a pole mast next to each current FTTC cabinet.

PS when I did a speed test on my new 4G phone earlier this year, it got 76Mbps straight out of the box.

As has been pointed out elsewhere, currently the main obstacle is there are few plans with lots or unlimited 4G data at a reasonable price, although I used to have one on 3G (which tops at, and easily achieves, 14M4Mbps).
  #14  
Old November 9th 18, 03:02 PM posted to uk.telecom.mobile,uk.telecom.broadband
Martin Brown[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 113
Default 5G will let users ditch fixed-line home broadband, says Three

On 08/11/2018 11:41, NY wrote:
"Java Jive" wrote in message
news
5G hyping getting into its stride ...

"5G will let users ditch fixed-line home broadband, says Three"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-46127712

Actually, out here in northern Scotland, 4G could already make my
landline redundant if only there was a suitably priced plan that gave
me unlimited or nearly so download limits, but AFAIAA there isn't.


Yes there are two critical things that are needed before you can even
*think* about ditching your landline:

- good coverage of mobile signal
- affordable tariff, comparable with what you would pay for landline
broadband

At present we have neither. Mobile coverage, even for simple phone
calls, let alone fast data, is patchy where I live. Mobile data tariffs
exist, but they still tend to be limited in terms of how much data you
can access per month, and they tend to be more expensive.

But this will change.


But probably only in the areas already well served by fast fixed lines.

I can't see rural North Yorkshire ever getting past 3G until hell
freezes over. Plenty are still on 2.5G and one bar of signal on a good
day if you are lucky. People here are used to balancing their phone on a
vase in the right window to gat any kind of mobile signal at all.


I just hope that the phone companies don't blow all their money
upgrading mobile/data coverage for the people who already have a fairly
fast connection, and neglect the people in more rural areas who can't
even get 100% reliable phone call and slow data coverage.


To the haves shall be given ever more at the expense of the have nots.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #15  
Old November 9th 18, 05:15 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
I
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default 5G will let users ditch fixed-line home broadband, says Three

On 09/11/2018 11:50, R. Mark Clayton wrote:

"5G will let users ditch fixed-line home broadband, says Three"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-46127712

Actually, out here in northern Scotland, 4G could already make my
landline redundant if only there was a suitably priced plan that gave me
unlimited or nearly so download limits, but AFAIAA there isn't.

Fake news. Oxygen absorption gives 300m range. So each radio modem needs
fiber optic modems 300m apart running at 10GHz. May as well roll out
Internet of fiber first. Connect everyone with $20 SFP 10gbit symmetric
fiber modules at higher speed than 5G, and cheaply at $150 per one off
connection fee, without a 250,000 5G radio modem!

You are an absolute mine of mis-information.

Typically 5G operates at 15GHz, whose propagation will be similar to KU band satellite transmissions. I can easily receive very weak (35 - 150W - similar to mobile base stations - 25W) signals at 12G750Hz from 40,000,000m away, with the last several miles through the atmosphere.

Presumably you need a 5G radio modem at each end. Even crApple will have trouble selling phones at 250k each. You seem to have given the development cost or more likely some figure you just made up.



You are a absolute fsckwit when it comes to broadband/telecum knowledge.

We can receive signals from Mars.


True, but you do need a big dish for that.

But what is the *fscking* bandwidth of this signal?


One gets about 2,000 channels simultaneously off Astra 28E of around 6 - 10Mbps each - so overall aggregate bandwidth around 20Gbps. Even $ky will sell you a receiver that can show / record four at once.

And what is the signal to noise ratio?


I don't have a figure, but plenty good enough to get a good picture, even in heavy rain.


If its 5G bandwidth, then you best be within the 300m range.


Nope, similar spacing to 4G probably, with some nano-cells in busy places like transport hubs.


In your wildest wettie dreams.
With 4G spacing, speeds drop down to 4G
You need 300m for oxygen absorption for 5G.
And 100m if hundreds of users in same area.

May as well install wifi / fiber for everyone.
Cheaper than 250,000 5G radio modem


And if more than several hundred users sharing the same radio modem,
then you better hope that radio modems are 100m apart otherwise,
you have exactly nothing.


You really do NOT understand statistical multiplexing - do you?


And you don't understand net bandwidth in a cell. Its fixed.
Adding a second statistically multiplexing cell gets you exactly nothing
if its the same frequency bands.


Only a few of them will be playing hi-res games at any one time. Most of them will not even be doing anything... Aggregate over say 500 users extremely unlikely to exceed 10Gbps - equivalent to an average 20Mbps - or roughly everyone watching HD video plus some back ground activity.


Whatcha sayin troll?

All the numbers need to be lubricated?

No one can get ditch their home broad band?


So in suburban areas all that would be needed would be a pole mast next to each current FTTC cabinet.

PS when I did a speed test on my new 4G phone earlier this year, it got 76Mbps straight out of the box.


One user. Lets add 100 users and then see what happenz.!!


As has been pointed out elsewhere, currently the main obstacle is there are few plans with lots or unlimited 4G data at a reasonable price, although I used to have one on 3G (which tops at, and easily achieves, 14M4Mbps).


In your wildest wettiest dreams.
Nothing works as soon you get on a bus. Not enough cells, and moving in
and out of pockets where people are gathered, you got no connectivity
as you are always last person to get connected - if at all.

  #16  
Old November 9th 18, 06:45 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband,uk.telecom.mobile
Chris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 511
Default 5G will let users ditch fixed-line home broadband, says Three

Martin Brown wrote:
On 08/11/2018 11:41, NY wrote:
"Java Jive" wrote in message
news
5G hyping getting into its stride ...

"5G will let users ditch fixed-line home broadband, says Three"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-46127712

Actually, out here in northern Scotland, 4G could already make my
landline redundant if only there was a suitably priced plan that gave
me unlimited or nearly so download limits, but AFAIAA there isn't.


Yes there are two critical things that are needed before you can even
*think* about ditching your landline:

- good coverage of mobile signal
- affordable tariff, comparable with what you would pay for landline
broadband

At present we have neither. Mobile coverage, even for simple phone
calls, let alone fast data, is patchy where I live. Mobile data tariffs
exist, but they still tend to be limited in terms of how much data you
can access per month, and they tend to be more expensive.

But this will change.


But probably only in the areas already well served by fast fixed lines.

I can't see rural North Yorkshire ever getting past 3G until hell
freezes over. Plenty are still on 2.5G and one bar of signal on a good
day if you are lucky. People here are used to balancing their phone on a
vase in the right window to gat any kind of mobile signal at all.


Isn't that because of the moors national park? I can imagine putting masts
on/near there is not possible.

  #17  
Old November 9th 18, 06:52 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Chris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 511
Default 5G will let users ditch fixed-line home broadband, says Three

I wrote:

In your wildest wettiest dreams.
Nothing works as soon you get on a bus. Not enough cells, and moving in
and out of pockets where people are gathered, you got no connectivity
as you are always last person to get connected - if at all.


Hmm. Weird? Been working here for years on the bus I catch to and from work
every day. Initially 3G and now 4G. Just run speedtest and got 45mbps down
and 20mbps up.



  #18  
Old November 9th 18, 09:10 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband,uk.telecom.mobile
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 383
Default 5G will let users ditch fixed-line home broadband, says Three

"Chris" wrote in message
news
I can't see rural North Yorkshire ever getting past 3G until hell
freezes over. Plenty are still on 2.5G and one bar of signal on a good
day if you are lucky. People here are used to balancing their phone on a
vase in the right window to gat any kind of mobile signal at all.


Isn't that because of the moors national park? I can imagine putting masts
on/near there is not possible.


No, even in the villages of Ryedale, away from any planning restrictions of
Dales and Moors national parks, reception is bloody awful. It is common to
lose a call or get garbled, intermittent phone calls when driving around -
even on the main A64 trunk road, let alone in villages. I accept that where
there are three cottages and a farm - and nothing for several miles -
reception may be bad. But in areas where there's no more than a mile or so
in any direction between one village and the next, and in a market town of
several thousand people, there ought to be good coverage. And there's not. I
know well that there is no coverage on one side of our house (but fairly
good on the other) so I have to constrain myself to one side of the house
when I make receive a mobile call. And if I go shopping, there is no
coverage whatsoever at the supermarket if I ever need to phone my wife to
say "they haven't got X, so will Y do instead". And I'm *very* used to the
"not registered on network" error :-(

  #19  
Old November 9th 18, 10:03 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Apd
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default 5G will let users ditch fixed-line home broadband, says Three

"7" wrote:
You are a absolute fsckwit when it comes to broadband/telecum knowledge.


The word is "****wit", ****wit, not some imagined extension of the
Unix file system checking command.

We can receive signals from Mars. But what is the *fscking* bandwidth of
this signal?


What's the matter? Are you afraid to say "****ing" in case you turn
into a toad?


  #20  
Old November 10th 18, 11:15 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
R. Mark Clayton[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 533
Default 5G will let users ditch fixed-line home broadband, says Three

On Friday, 9 November 2018 16:15:06 UTC, I wrote:
On 09/11/2018 11:50, R. Mark Clayton wrote:

"5G will let users ditch fixed-line home broadband, says Three"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-46127712

Actually, out here in northern Scotland, 4G could already make my
landline redundant if only there was a suitably priced plan that gave me
unlimited or nearly so download limits, but AFAIAA there isn't.

Fake news. Oxygen absorption gives 300m range. So each radio modem needs
fiber optic modems 300m apart running at 10GHz. May as well roll out
Internet of fiber first. Connect everyone with $20 SFP 10gbit symmetric
fiber modules at higher speed than 5G, and cheaply at $150 per one off
connection fee, without a 250,000 5G radio modem!

You are an absolute mine of mis-information.

Typically 5G operates at 15GHz, whose propagation will be similar to KU band satellite transmissions. I can easily receive very weak (35 - 150W - similar to mobile base stations - 25W) signals at 12G750Hz from 40,000,000m away, with the last several miles through the atmosphere.

Presumably you need a 5G radio modem at each end. Even crApple will have trouble selling phones at 250k each. You seem to have given the development cost or more likely some figure you just made up.


You are a absolute fsckwit when it comes to broadband/telecum knowledge.

We can receive signals from Mars.


True, but you do need a big dish for that.

But what is the *fscking* bandwidth of this signal?


One gets about 2,000 channels simultaneously off Astra 28E of around 6 - 10Mbps each - so overall aggregate bandwidth around 20Gbps. Even $ky will sell you a receiver that can show / record four at once.

And what is the signal to noise ratio?


I don't have a figure, but plenty good enough to get a good picture, even in heavy rain.


If its 5G bandwidth, then you best be within the 300m range.


Nope, similar spacing to 4G probably, with some nano-cells in busy places like transport hubs.


In your wildest wettie dreams.
With 4G spacing, speeds drop down to 4G


No the speed depends on the signal structure.

You need 300m for oxygen absorption for 5G.


Absolute poppycock - Ku band satellites work perfectly well above kilometres of atmosphere.

And 100m if hundreds of users in same area.


Hundreds of users within a 100m radius - Kowloon maybe, not UK suburbs.



May as well install wifi / fiber for everyone.
Cheaper than 250,000 5G radio modem


And if more than several hundred users sharing the same radio modem,
then you better hope that radio modems are 100m apart otherwise,
you have exactly nothing.


You really do NOT understand statistical multiplexing - do you?


And you don't understand net bandwidth in a cell. Its fixed.
Adding a second statistically multiplexing cell gets you exactly nothing
if its the same frequency bands.


The overall bandwidth of a SINGLE base station is shared statistically amongst all the users [potentially hundreds] connected to that base station. That bandwidth is more than adequate for them.

Each connected user only uses a few of the channels available, the base station can use all of them. Similar to Satellite TV - all the TV channels are broadcast at once (several from each transponder), but users usually only pick up one or a few of them.



Only a few of them will be playing hi-res games at any one time. Most of them will not even be doing anything... Aggregate over say 500 users extremely unlikely to exceed 10Gbps - equivalent to an average 20Mbps - or roughly everyone watching HD video plus some back ground activity.


Whatcha sayin troll?

All the numbers need to be lubricated?

No one can get ditch their home broad band?


So in suburban areas all that would be needed would be a pole mast next to each current FTTC cabinet.

PS when I did a speed test on my new 4G phone earlier this year, it got 76Mbps straight out of the box.


One user. Lets add 100 users and then see what happenz.!!


As has been pointed out elsewhere, currently the main obstacle is there are few plans with lots or unlimited 4G data at a reasonable price, although I used to have one on 3G (which tops at, and easily achieves, 14M4Mbps).


In your wildest wettiest dreams.
Nothing works as soon you get on a bus. Not enough cells, and moving in
and out of pockets where people are gathered, you got no connectivity
as you are always last person to get connected - if at all.


Yes it does. Indeed the buses I travel on usually have wi-fi courtesy of a 4G connection of the bus.

OTOH poor on trains - all those cuttings and tunnels...

HOWEVER this thread is about 5G replacing fixed domestic connections in case you had forgotten, plus of course you can't drive down the street with a fibre connected can you?

 



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