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uk.telecom.voip (UK VOIP) (uk.telecom.voip) Discussion of topics relevant to packet based voice technologies including Voice over IP (VoIP), Fax over IP (FoIP), Voice over Frame Relay (VoFR), Voice over Broadband (VoB) and Voice on the Net (VoN) as well as service providers, hardware and software for use with these technologies. Advertising is not allowed.

VoIP with existing wiring and an NTE5c



 
 
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  #41  
Old September 28th 18, 07:12 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
MissRiaElaine[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 74
Default VoIP with existing wiring and an NTE5c

On 28/09/2018 17:55, Andrew Benham wrote:
On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 15:18:17 +0000, Andrew Benham wrote:

On Sun, 29 Jul 2018 11:04:06 +0000, Andrew Benham wrote:

I'm planning to switch my landline number over to a VoIP provider, and use an
ATA to connect to the existing phone wiring and handsets. That way my aged
parent doesn't need to learn anything new.

I used to have 2 master sockets - an early NTE5 with a DSL faceplate, and
then a single pair link from the filtered side of that to a 'voice only'
master socket. That was done to make it easy to switch to VoIP - remove the
single pair link and plug the ATA into the 'voice only' master socket. But
an Openreach man replaced them both with an NTE5c and a VDSL Service Specific
Face Plate (SSFP), despite my explaining why I'd done it like that :-(

So now I have an NTE5c and a VDSL SSFP, and no easy way to connect from
an ATA to the existing phone wiring. Now it strikes me that it ought
to be possible to connect from the ATA to the BT phone socket on the
VDSL SSFP - but that I'd need to cut something(s) in the faceplate wiring
so that the phone socket on the faceplate doesn't get the filtered voice
signal.

It also strikes me that I'm probably not the first person to think of
this. Has anyone done it already and can explain what to cut ?


Aha, what I'm looking for is apparently a VRI Isolation Faceplate, shown
on page 14 of
https://www.btplc.com/SINet/SINs/pdf/STIN517v1p3.pdf

I wonder if they actually exist yet ?


Aha, I've just invested in a spare VDSL SSFP for the NTE5c, and I can see a
way to do what I want - with some modifications to the circuit board.
To recap, I want to use the phone socket on the VDSL SSFP to inject the audio
from the ATA onto the house phone wiring.


I use structured cabling. The flat is wired with a mixture of Cat 5e and
Cat 6, with the usual RJ45 sockets wired back to a patch panel. The ATA
sits in the rack with all the other comms and computer kit and I just
patch the outputs from the ATA (Linksys PAP2) to whichever socket I want
and then use an RJ45 to BT socket dongle to connect the phone(s).



--
Ria in Aberdeen

[Send address is invalid, use sipsoup at gmail dot com to reply direct]
  #42  
Old October 4th 18, 12:02 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Andrew Benham
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 278
Default VoIP with existing wiring and an NTE5c

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 16:55:05 +0000, Andrew Benham wrote:

On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 15:18:17 +0000, Andrew Benham wrote:

On Sun, 29 Jul 2018 11:04:06 +0000, Andrew Benham wrote:

I'm planning to switch my landline number over to a VoIP provider, and use an
ATA to connect to the existing phone wiring and handsets. That way my aged
parent doesn't need to learn anything new.

I used to have 2 master sockets - an early NTE5 with a DSL faceplate, and
then a single pair link from the filtered side of that to a 'voice only'
master socket. That was done to make it easy to switch to VoIP - remove the
single pair link and plug the ATA into the 'voice only' master socket. But
an Openreach man replaced them both with an NTE5c and a VDSL Service Specific
Face Plate (SSFP), despite my explaining why I'd done it like that :-(

So now I have an NTE5c and a VDSL SSFP, and no easy way to connect from
an ATA to the existing phone wiring. Now it strikes me that it ought
to be possible to connect from the ATA to the BT phone socket on the
VDSL SSFP - but that I'd need to cut something(s) in the faceplate wiring
so that the phone socket on the faceplate doesn't get the filtered voice
signal.

It also strikes me that I'm probably not the first person to think of
this. Has anyone done it already and can explain what to cut ?


Aha, what I'm looking for is apparently a VRI Isolation Faceplate, shown
on page 14 of
https://www.btplc.com/SINet/SINs/pdf/STIN517v1p3.pdf

I wonder if they actually exist yet ?


Aha, I've just invested in a spare VDSL SSFP for the NTE5c, and I can see a
way to do what I want - with some modifications to the circuit board.
To recap, I want to use the phone socket on the VDSL SSFP to inject the audio
from the ATA onto the house phone wiring.


I've done a write-up at:

https://support.aa.net.uk/VoIP_How_t...ce_reinjection
  #43  
Old October 4th 18, 02:50 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Graham.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 269
Default VoIP with existing wiring and an NTE5c

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 16:55:05 +0000, Andrew Benham wrote:

On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 15:18:17 +0000, Andrew Benham wrote:

On Sun, 29 Jul 2018 11:04:06 +0000, Andrew Benham wrote:

I'm planning to switch my landline number over to a VoIP provider, and use an
ATA to connect to the existing phone wiring and handsets. That way my aged
parent doesn't need to learn anything new.

I used to have 2 master sockets - an early NTE5 with a DSL faceplate, and
then a single pair link from the filtered side of that to a 'voice only'
master socket. That was done to make it easy to switch to VoIP - remove the
single pair link and plug the ATA into the 'voice only' master socket. But
an Openreach man replaced them both with an NTE5c and a VDSL Service Specific
Face Plate (SSFP), despite my explaining why I'd done it like that :-(

So now I have an NTE5c and a VDSL SSFP, and no easy way to connect from
an ATA to the existing phone wiring. Now it strikes me that it ought
to be possible to connect from the ATA to the BT phone socket on the
VDSL SSFP - but that I'd need to cut something(s) in the faceplate wiring
so that the phone socket on the faceplate doesn't get the filtered voice
signal.

It also strikes me that I'm probably not the first person to think of
this. Has anyone done it already and can explain what to cut ?

Aha, what I'm looking for is apparently a VRI Isolation Faceplate, shown
on page 14 of
https://www.btplc.com/SINet/SINs/pdf/STIN517v1p3.pdf

I wonder if they actually exist yet ?


Aha, I've just invested in a spare VDSL SSFP for the NTE5c, and I can see a
way to do what I want - with some modifications to the circuit board.
To recap, I want to use the phone socket on the VDSL SSFP to inject the audio
from the ATA onto the house phone wiring.


I've done a write-up at:

https://support.aa.net.uk/VoIP_How_t...ce_reinjection


It's certainly a neat arrangement, and leaves the opentrach/subscriber
demarcation intact.

It should be understood that the filter in the faceplate that is still
in the ATA derived voice line, is completely unnecessary.

Is it possible to dial anything at all on the A&A line like 999 112 or
17070?

--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%
  #44  
Old October 4th 18, 03:59 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Graham.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 269
Default VoIP with existing wiring and an NTE5c



It's certainly a neat arrangement, and leaves the opentrach/subscriber
demarcation intact.

It should be understood that the filter in the faceplate that is still
in the ATA derived voice line, is completely unnecessary.

Is it possible to dial anything at all on the A&A line like 999 112 or
17070?


--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%
  #45  
Old October 5th 18, 11:38 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Andrew Benham
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 278
Default VoIP with existing wiring and an NTE5c

On Thu, 04 Oct 2018 14:50:53 +0100, Graham. wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 16:55:05 +0000, Andrew Benham wrote:

On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 15:18:17 +0000, Andrew Benham wrote:

On Sun, 29 Jul 2018 11:04:06 +0000, Andrew Benham wrote:

I'm planning to switch my landline number over to a VoIP provider, and use an
ATA to connect to the existing phone wiring and handsets. That way my aged
parent doesn't need to learn anything new.

I used to have 2 master sockets - an early NTE5 with a DSL faceplate, and
then a single pair link from the filtered side of that to a 'voice only'
master socket. That was done to make it easy to switch to VoIP - remove the
single pair link and plug the ATA into the 'voice only' master socket. But
an Openreach man replaced them both with an NTE5c and a VDSL Service Specific
Face Plate (SSFP), despite my explaining why I'd done it like that :-(

So now I have an NTE5c and a VDSL SSFP, and no easy way to connect from
an ATA to the existing phone wiring. Now it strikes me that it ought
to be possible to connect from the ATA to the BT phone socket on the
VDSL SSFP - but that I'd need to cut something(s) in the faceplate wiring
so that the phone socket on the faceplate doesn't get the filtered voice
signal.

It also strikes me that I'm probably not the first person to think of
this. Has anyone done it already and can explain what to cut ?

Aha, what I'm looking for is apparently a VRI Isolation Faceplate, shown
on page 14 of
https://www.btplc.com/SINet/SINs/pdf/STIN517v1p3.pdf

I wonder if they actually exist yet ?

Aha, I've just invested in a spare VDSL SSFP for the NTE5c, and I can see a
way to do what I want - with some modifications to the circuit board.
To recap, I want to use the phone socket on the VDSL SSFP to inject the audio
from the ATA onto the house phone wiring.


I've done a write-up at:

https://support.aa.net.uk/VoIP_How_t...ce_reinjection


It's certainly a neat arrangement, and leaves the opentrach/subscriber
demarcation intact.

It should be understood that the filter in the faceplate that is still
in the ATA derived voice line, is completely unnecessary.


The way I've modified the faceplate means that the filter components are
still connected to the incoming line but don't go anywhere. The voice
circuit from the ATA through the NTE5c/faceplate out to the house wiring
doesn't have any filtering.

Is it possible to dial anything at all on the A&A line like 999 112 or
17070?


I'll let you know when the migration to an A&A copper pair has happened.
AIUI the copper pair has a repeating voice message from Adrian saying
"Kelly Kowboys, hands off this line". I don't think there's dial tone,
and at the foot of
https://www.aaisp.net.uk/broadband-phoneline.html
it states "We do not allow any calls in or out"
  #46  
Old October 7th 18, 11:03 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Andrew Benham
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 278
Default VoIP with existing wiring and an NTE5c

On Sat, 06 Oct 2018 07:24:36 -0400, Anthony R. Gold wrote:

On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 22:38:45 -0000 (UTC), Andrew Benham
wrote:

On Thu, 04 Oct 2018 14:50:53 +0100, Graham. wrote:

Is it possible to dial anything at all on the A&A line like 999 112 or
17070?


I'll let you know when the migration to an A&A copper pair has happened.
AIUI the copper pair has a repeating voice message from Adrian saying
"Kelly Kowboys, hands off this line". I don't think there's dial tone,
and at the foot of
https://www.aaisp.net.uk/broadband-phoneline.html
it states "We do not allow any calls in or out"


The A&A "Naked DSL" line for my VDSL service has a dial tone and can reach
17070, 999, and 0800 numbers so, most interestingly, the 0808 access numbers
for dial-around services 18866, 18185 and 1899 with the result that you can
actually dial virtually anyone anywhere. Only the "no calls in" is true.


Does the line have the message from Adrian on it, or just dial tone ?

CHAOS2 seems to think that my landline isn't originally a BT number and so
refuses to do a seamless migration. I guess it's right, my landline is
originally a GPO number :-o
  #47  
Old October 8th 18, 08:54 AM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Andrew Benham
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 278
Default VoIP with existing wiring and an NTE5c

On Sat, 06 Oct 2018 07:24:36 -0400, Anthony R. Gold wrote:

On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 22:38:45 -0000 (UTC), Andrew Benham
wrote:

On Thu, 04 Oct 2018 14:50:53 +0100, Graham. wrote:

Is it possible to dial anything at all on the A&A line like 999 112 or
17070?


I'll let you know when the migration to an A&A copper pair has happened.
AIUI the copper pair has a repeating voice message from Adrian saying
"Kelly Kowboys, hands off this line". I don't think there's dial tone,
and at the foot of
https://www.aaisp.net.uk/broadband-phoneline.html
it states "We do not allow any calls in or out"


The A&A "Naked DSL" line for my VDSL service has a dial tone and can reach
17070, 999, and 0800 numbers so, most interestingly, the 0808 access numbers
for dial-around services 18866, 18185 and 1899 with the result that you can
actually dial virtually anyone anywhere. Only the "no calls in" is true.


Interesting. On such outbound calls, what calling line ID is presented to
the called party ? And what does 17070 report as your number - same
or different ?
  #48  
Old October 8th 18, 02:19 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Graham.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 269
Default VoIP with existing wiring and an NTE5c

On Mon, 8 Oct 2018 07:54:27 -0000 (UTC), Andrew Benham
wrote:

On Sat, 06 Oct 2018 07:24:36 -0400, Anthony R. Gold wrote:

On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 22:38:45 -0000 (UTC), Andrew Benham
wrote:

On Thu, 04 Oct 2018 14:50:53 +0100, Graham. wrote:

Is it possible to dial anything at all on the A&A line like 999 112 or
17070?

I'll let you know when the migration to an A&A copper pair has happened.
AIUI the copper pair has a repeating voice message from Adrian saying
"Kelly Kowboys, hands off this line". I don't think there's dial tone,
and at the foot of
https://www.aaisp.net.uk/broadband-phoneline.html
it states "We do not allow any calls in or out"

The A&A "Naked DSL" line for my VDSL service has a dial tone and can reach
17070, 999, and 0800 numbers so, most interestingly, the 0808 access numbers
for dial-around services 18866, 18185 and 1899 with the result that you can
actually dial virtually anyone anywhere. Only the "no calls in" is true.


Interesting. On such outbound calls, what calling line ID is presented to
the called party ? And what does 17070 report as your number - same
or different ?


The same number as is also shown at the top of the A&A Control page.


Is it a NGN or a geographic number, and if the latter does the STD
code tally with the actual location?

--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%
  #49  
Old October 8th 18, 05:37 PM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Andrew Benham
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 278
Default VoIP with existing wiring and an NTE5c

On Mon, 08 Oct 2018 09:09:26 -0400, Anthony R. Gold wrote:

On Sun, 7 Oct 2018 22:03:28 -0000 (UTC), Andrew Benham
wrote:

On Sat, 06 Oct 2018 07:24:36 -0400, Anthony R. Gold wrote:

On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 22:38:45 -0000 (UTC), Andrew Benham
wrote:

On Thu, 04 Oct 2018 14:50:53 +0100, Graham. wrote:

Is it possible to dial anything at all on the A&A line like 999 112 or
17070?

I'll let you know when the migration to an A&A copper pair has happened.
AIUI the copper pair has a repeating voice message from Adrian saying
"Kelly Kowboys, hands off this line". I don't think there's dial tone,
and at the foot of
https://www.aaisp.net.uk/broadband-phoneline.html
it states "We do not allow any calls in or out"

The A&A "Naked DSL" line for my VDSL service has a dial tone and can reach
17070, 999, and 0800 numbers so, most interestingly, the 0808 access numbers
for dial-around services 18866, 18185 and 1899 with the result that you can
actually dial virtually anyone anywhere. Only the "no calls in" is true.


Does the line have the message from Adrian on it, or just dial tone ?


No message from Rev A, just the 350Hz + 440Hz BT dial tone.

CHAOS2 seems to think that my landline isn't originally a BT number and so
refuses to do a seamless migration. I guess it's right, my landline is
originally a GPO number :-o


The new Openreach Naked DSL line comes with a phone number that is shown on
the A&A account management page, can be revealed by 17070 and is presented
as CLI when calling via 18185 etc.


CHAOS2 has been fixed, and I've just placed my order for A&A taking over the
landline and porting the number to VoIP.

I'll see whether I get Adrian's voice message or dial tone.

AIUI you can make (free) calls which have a presentation number which does not
accept incoming calls. Since 1st October that's been outlawed by Ofcom!

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultatio...cli-facilities

Section 4.10 of the PDF linked under "Update 30 July 2018".

Perhaps we can have adjacent cells in prison ?
  #50  
Old October 9th 18, 01:23 AM posted to uk.telecom.voip
Graham.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 269
Default VoIP with existing wiring and an NTE5c



CHAOS2 has been fixed, and I've just placed my order for A&A taking over the
landline and porting the number to VoIP.

I'll see whether I get Adrian's voice message or dial tone.

AIUI you can make (free) calls which have a presentation number which does not
accept incoming calls. Since 1st October that's been outlawed by Ofcom!

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultatio...cli-facilities

Section 4.10 of the PDF linked under "Update 30 July 2018".

Perhaps we can have adjacent cells in prison ?



https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/asse...i-guidance.pdf

1 Summary
1.5
...The aim of this document is to establish the principles
for this approach, setting out what is expected of CPs to meet these
requirements and to
provide guidance for all CPs that participate in the origination,
transmission and
termination of a call in the UK.


Enforcement
2.12 Although this guidance is not legally binding, we may take it
into account in enforcement
action against other binding requirements...


All my outbound calls go via a Luxemburg based VoIP CP so are
presumably outside the scope of the document. That provider does not
provide me with an incoming service. It does however allow me to spoof
a presentation number of my choice, providing I can receive a
verification call on that number, so my landline, a mobile number of a
family member, or one of my many incoming VoIP numbers from other
providers are all candidates. They are indeed valid and dialable, but
only because I want them to be. I am not sure if they always uniquely
identify me as the caller.

--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%
 



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