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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Mobile broadband question (and oddity)



 
 
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  #41  
Old April 18th 19, 09:41 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Theo[_2_]
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Posts: 83
Default Mobile broadband question (and oddity)

Roderick Stewart wrote:
But that's not how they sell it. PAYG phone payment is *not* for
anything like rental. It's not a standing charge regardless of usage.
You pay by how much call time you use. Buying a 20 topup instead of a
10 one doesn't buy you more "capacity" or "availability time", it
buys call time. It's completely different.


It is not part of the headline, but it's part of the pricing model
(use-or-topup-within-180-days).

The network has to reserve a number for you, and they spend capacity on
polling your phone regularly to check it's still there and can receive a
call if one comes in. That bandwidth could be sold to other customers,
hence it's a cost.

It isn't billed directly, because it's a small amount and billing for it
separately might cost more than the cost being charged for (would be silly
to set up a billing system that billed 0.1p per day or whatever the cost
is). The overheads on receiving the payments alone would wipe out any
revenue, as would the arguments about customers complaining they were
charged 2p more than they expected.

This is why the pricing model instead operates in discrete lumps of 5 or 10
pounds, where it all balances out on average.

If you want to pay a monthly fee to ensure your 'line' stays connected, get
a contract.

The same goes for data bundles with 30 day timeouts - you aren't buying 2GB
of traffic, you're buying the right to use data for 30 days, with a cap that
happens to be 2GB. On average customers will use less than this. It's more
efficient to sell bundles like this than charge per MB with associated
billing complications and feeling of the meter running, and makes a more
attractive proposition than advertising the actual data that gets used (if
the headline is 2GB, the actual average consumption might be much less).

Theo
  #42  
Old April 18th 19, 10:58 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Martin Brown[_2_]
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Posts: 193
Default Mobile broadband question (and oddity)

On 18/04/2019 00:40, Chris wrote:
MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 17/04/2019 08:24, Chris wrote:
MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 16/04/2019 19:05, Tim+ wrote:
MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 16/04/2019 13:29, Tim+ wrote:

Playing Devil's advocate, I guess ISPs would say that it was your choice
not to use it, but importantly you had the CAPACITY to use it (until it was
cancelled). Providing that capacity costs ISPs money. It's analogous to
paying line rental on a land line.

If you went into a pub and bought a pint, then had that pint taken off
you after half an hour whether you'd finished it or not, would you
accept that..?

What if you were in there all night not drinking taking up room that could
be more gainfully used by a drinking customer?

Pubs have overheads. Having a room full of people clutching a single pint
all night doesn't pay the bills.

But I don't see any pubs implementing this tactic. It would be even
worse for business if people, being told off for not drinking more, left
never to return.

Sure they do. If you don't finish your drink by closing time, you have to
leave it. This is common practise.


Slight difference between closing time and half an hour after you bought
it at 8pm.


That's your (very unrealistic) definition. The reality is closer to the
PAYG scenario: you're given an adequate amount of time to drink your
pint/use your data. Data nor pints last for infinity.


Bitrot used to be measured in years on old magnetic tapes. The operators
would run them through from time to time to try and avoid print through.

Not sure how long modern solid state memory lasts I guess it depends on
how radioactive your local environment is (or whether you can still find
it or actually hardware to read it many years later).

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #43  
Old April 18th 19, 02:03 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
MissRiaElaine[_2_]
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Posts: 204
Default Mobile broadband question (and oddity)

On 18/04/2019 00:40, Chris wrote:
MissRiaElaine wrote:


Slight difference between closing time and half an hour after you bought
it at 8pm.


That's your (very unrealistic) definition. The reality is closer to the
PAYG scenario: you're given an adequate amount of time to drink your
pint/use your data. Data nor pints last for infinity

30 days is not adequate if I only use the SIM once every three weeks or
less. I have paid for x MB of data, why can't I use it in my own time..?

Why can't data on a PAYG SIM be treated like voice..? I once had an old
Orange SIM card that wasn't used for about two years and still worked.


--
Ria in Aberdeen

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  #44  
Old April 18th 19, 03:54 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Martin Brown[_2_]
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Posts: 193
Default Mobile broadband question (and oddity)

On 18/04/2019 14:03, MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 18/04/2019 00:40, Chris wrote:
MissRiaElaine wrote:


Slight difference between closing time and half an hour after you bought
it at 8pm.


That's your (very unrealistic) definition. The reality is closer to the
PAYG scenario: you're given an adequate amount of time to drink your
pint/use your data. Data nor pints last for infinity

30 days is not adequate if I only use the SIM once every three weeks or
less. I have paid for x MB of data, why can't I use it in my own time..?

Why can't data on a PAYG SIM be treated like voice..? I once had an old
Orange SIM card that wasn't used for about two years and still worked.


You were very lucky then. My mum's Orange SIM went inactive the first
time that I forgot to make a call on it in the 6 month window (and was
at a stage where replacement Orange SIMs were hard to find). Unlocking
the phone would have more than doubled its value.

EE shop helpfully suggested scouring Poundland for old Orange SIMs.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #45  
Old April 18th 19, 05:38 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Chris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 570
Default Mobile broadband question (and oddity)

MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 18/04/2019 00:40, Chris wrote:
MissRiaElaine wrote:


Slight difference between closing time and half an hour after you bought
it at 8pm.


That's your (very unrealistic) definition. The reality is closer to the
PAYG scenario: you're given an adequate amount of time to drink your
pint/use your data. Data nor pints last for infinity

30 days is not adequate if I only use the SIM once every three weeks or
less.


Then don't but that SIM - there are other options.

I have paid for x MB of data, why can't I use it in my own time..?


Because the deal is 30 days on a rolling contract. If you don't like it get
a true PAYG which has longer time limits.

Why can't data on a PAYG SIM be treated like voice..? I once had an old
Orange SIM card that wasn't used for about two years and still worked.


Business. They're not charities.


  #46  
Old April 18th 19, 06:43 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
MissRiaElaine[_2_]
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Posts: 204
Default Mobile broadband question (and oddity)

On 18/04/2019 17:38, Chris wrote:

I have paid for x MB of data, why can't I use it in my own time..?


Because the deal is 30 days on a rolling contract. If you don't like it get
a true PAYG which has longer time limits.


Find me one that lets me use data on a PAYG basis with no expiry (other
than the usual 180 days as for voice).

Why can't data on a PAYG SIM be treated like voice..? I once had an old
Orange SIM card that wasn't used for about two years and still worked.


Business. They're not charities.


I never said they were. But at the end of the day, it's a digital
system, everything boils down to 1's and 0's. Why should it matter
whether those 1's and 0's are being used for voice or data..?


--
Ria in Aberdeen

[Send address is invalid, use sipsoup at gmail dot com to reply direct]
  #47  
Old April 18th 19, 11:07 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Chris
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Posts: 570
Default Mobile broadband question (and oddity)

MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 18/04/2019 17:38, Chris wrote:

I have paid for x MB of data, why can't I use it in my own time..?


Because the deal is 30 days on a rolling contract. If you don't like it get
a true PAYG which has longer time limits.


Find me one that lets me use data on a PAYG basis with no expiry (other
than the usual 180 days as for voice).


This has been discussed loads on here. Many of them do. E.g. Three's 3-2-1
PAYG. It even says on their page "No expiry*".

*You only need to make one chargeable use every six months.

You could make a fiver's credit last for *years*.

  #48  
Old April 19th 19, 07:54 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Roderick Stewart
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Posts: 557
Default Mobile broadband question (and oddity)

On Thu, 18 Apr 2019 22:07:21 -0000 (UTC), Chris
wrote:

Find me one that lets me use data on a PAYG basis with no expiry (other
than the usual 180 days as for voice).


This has been discussed loads on here. Many of them do. E.g. Three's 3-2-1
PAYG. It even says on their page "No expiry*".

*You only need to make one chargeable use every six months.


That's not really "no expiry" at all then, because if you don't
remember to make a chargeable call it *will* expire. It's not an
insurmountable problem as long as you remember it, but it's annoying,
and all the more so because it's completely avoidable; it's not a
technical constraint, just somebody's decision.

Rod.

---
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  #49  
Old April 19th 19, 10:08 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Mark Carver
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Posts: 458
Default Mobile broadband question (and oddity)

On 18/04/2019 23:07, Chris wrote:
MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 18/04/2019 17:38, Chris wrote:

I have paid for x MB of data, why can't I use it in my own time..?

Because the deal is 30 days on a rolling contract. If you don't like it get
a true PAYG which has longer time limits.


Find me one that lets me use data on a PAYG basis with no expiry (other
than the usual 180 days as for voice).


This has been discussed loads on here. Many of them do. E.g. Three's 3-2-1
PAYG. It even says on their page "No expiry*".

*You only need to make one chargeable use every six months.

You could make a fiver's credit last for *years*.


My mother has had one in an old iphone I set her up with, I've just
checked, down to 2.10 credit now, she's never made a chargeable call on
it (she doesn't know how to !). She only sends Whatsapps, and 99% of
them are using the home WiFi. All the credit is consumed by back ground
data 'chatter' between the phone and network, but WTF, 1 quid per year
to keep the SIM alive. Is that an acceptable level of 'freeloading' or
is MissRe going to say it's still too much to pay ?


--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.
  #50  
Old April 20th 19, 12:57 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Chris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 570
Default Mobile broadband question (and oddity)

Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Thu, 18 Apr 2019 22:07:21 -0000 (UTC), Chris
wrote:

Find me one that lets me use data on a PAYG basis with no expiry (other
than the usual 180 days as for voice).


This has been discussed loads on here. Many of them do. E.g. Three's 3-2-1
PAYG. It even says on their page "No expiry*".

*You only need to make one chargeable use every six months.


That's not really "no expiry" at all then, because if you don't
remember to make a chargeable call it *will* expire.


Do you also need someone to help you breathe and eat? If you can't remember
to use your phone twice a year maybe mobiles aren't for you.

It's not an
insurmountable problem as long as you remember it, but it's annoying,
and all the more so because it's completely avoidable; it's not a
technical constraint, just somebody's decision.


It's also your choice to use a mobile.
 




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