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uk.telecom.broadband (UK broadband) (uk.telecom.broadband) Discussion of broadband services, technology and equipment as provided in the UK. Discussions of specific services based on ADSL, cable modems or other broadband technology are also on-topic. Advertising is not allowed.

Point to point wireless



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 29th 18, 11:39 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Theo[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 57
Default Point to point wireless


If I want to make a wireless link of about 500m through a typical
residential environment, but which can't do line of sight, is there anything
I could do? The land is flat, but LOS goes obliquely through about 6 houses
so seems like a non-starter.

There's nowhere suitable to install a reflector - it might just be
possible to get reflections off existing objects, but it'll be two or three
deep at a minimum. Also it might be difficult to orient each end to point
down the LOS. Raising either end to improve LOS isn't feasible.

I assume using 2.4 or 5GHz will have lots of interference. Would there be
any merit in a licensed band?

Not hugely bothered by bandwidth, a few Mbps would be OK.

Thanks
Theo
  #2  
Old July 30th 18, 08:25 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Graham J[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 670
Default Point to point wireless

Theo wrote:
If I want to make a wireless link of about 500m through a typical
residential environment, but which can't do line of sight, is there anything
I could do? The land is flat, but LOS goes obliquely through about 6 houses
so seems like a non-starter.

There's nowhere suitable to install a reflector - it might just be
possible to get reflections off existing objects, but it'll be two or three
deep at a minimum. Also it might be difficult to orient each end to point
down the LOS. Raising either end to improve LOS isn't feasible.

I assume using 2.4 or 5GHz will have lots of interference. Would there be
any merit in a licensed band?

Not hugely bothered by bandwidth, a few Mbps would be OK.


Line of sight is essential for 2.4 or 5GHz.

I can't comment on a licensed solution, but this is likely to be a
commercial configuration so relatively expensive.

However I've used Tranzeo and Engenius products for LoS over distances
of several km, but even then I've had to put the transceiver unit on top
of a pole mounted on the roof of a building. This has generally been
for farm sites in rural Lincolnshire, and it's essential to get the
antennae above the trees; but otherwise there are no buildings along the
LoS and the land is dead flat! The farmers have helped with labour and
the loan of machinery such as a cherry picker but even then the cost has
been of the order of 1,000 each end.

Note that I've struggled to get the Engenius models to work properly in
Bridge mode but they are fine as routers.

So why do you want wireless?

If you have a decent broadband service at each location (via ADSL, FTTC,
or FTTP) with a fixed IP address, then with a Vigor (or other
sophisticated) router you could set up a LAN-to-LAN VPN between the
sites. Cost about 250 each end for the routers. You can also monitor
the performance of both routers from a third site.

What about 3G, 4G, or 5G ??? You may be able to get a suitable router
to support a VPN ...

--
Graham J




  #3  
Old July 30th 18, 08:55 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Martin Brown[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 103
Default Point to point wireless

On 29/07/2018 23:39, Theo wrote:
If I want to make a wireless link of about 500m through a typical
residential environment, but which can't do line of sight, is there anything
I could do? The land is flat, but LOS goes obliquely through about 6 houses
so seems like a non-starter.

There's nowhere suitable to install a reflector - it might just be
possible to get reflections off existing objects, but it'll be two or three
deep at a minimum. Also it might be difficult to orient each end to point
down the LOS. Raising either end to improve LOS isn't feasible.


Roofs are easier to got through than building walls, but you lose signal
when they are wet. I use this method to link to our local Village Hall.

I assume using 2.4 or 5GHz will have lots of interference. Would there be
any merit in a licensed band?


You may be able to use a VHF unlicensed band but the price performance
of industrial grade telemetry may well rule it out unless you have money
to burn. This would seem to go some way towards what you asked for:

https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/b7f72...f0aa376b49.pdf

Data rate is only 72kbps maximum though.

Not hugely bothered by bandwidth, a few Mbps would be OK.

Thanks
Theo



--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #4  
Old July 30th 18, 11:06 AM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Invalid
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 134
Default Point to point wireless

In message , Theo
writes

If I want to make a wireless link of about 500m through a typical
residential environment, but which can't do line of sight, is there anything
I could do? The land is flat, but LOS goes obliquely through about 6 houses
so seems like a non-starter.

There's nowhere suitable to install a reflector - it might just be
possible to get reflections off existing objects, but it'll be two or three
deep at a minimum. Also it might be difficult to orient each end to point
down the LOS. Raising either end to improve LOS isn't feasible.

I assume using 2.4 or 5GHz will have lots of interference. Would there be
any merit in a licensed band?

Not hugely bothered by bandwidth, a few Mbps would be OK.

Thanks
Theo


How high up are the TV aerials on the two ends?

Round here (in a valley) most houses have the TV aerial on top of a 2-3M
pole fastened to the chimney stack. If all the intervening "houses" are
two stories high, you may be able to get line of site from a point 3M
above the roof at each end.


--
Invalid
  #5  
Old July 31st 18, 12:25 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
AnthonyL
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 104
Default Point to point wireless

On 29 Jul 2018 23:39:35 +0100 (BST), Theo
wrote:


If I want to make a wireless link of about 500m through a typical
residential environment, but which can't do line of sight, is there anything
I could do? The land is flat, but LOS goes obliquely through about 6 houses
so seems like a non-starter.

There's nowhere suitable to install a reflector - it might just be
possible to get reflections off existing objects, but it'll be two or three
deep at a minimum. Also it might be difficult to orient each end to point
down the LOS. Raising either end to improve LOS isn't feasible.

I assume using 2.4 or 5GHz will have lots of interference. Would there be
any merit in a licensed band?

Not hugely bothered by bandwidth, a few Mbps would be OK.


When I had a point to point wireless (2.4GHz) approx 400m if the
farmer didn't prune the apple tree in his front garden each year it
would render my signal almost useless especially in the wet.
Fortunately he was also landlord of my office and was obliging to keep
me as a tenant.

So that's just a few leaves on an otherwise clear line of sight.

--
AnthonyL
  #6  
Old July 31st 18, 11:10 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Woody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 665
Default Point to point wireless


"AnthonyL" wrote in message
...
On 29 Jul 2018 23:39:35 +0100 (BST), Theo
wrote:


If I want to make a wireless link of about 500m through a typical
residential environment, but which can't do line of sight, is there
anything
I could do? The land is flat, but LOS goes obliquely through about
6 houses
so seems like a non-starter.

There's nowhere suitable to install a reflector - it might just be
possible to get reflections off existing objects, but it'll be two
or three
deep at a minimum. Also it might be difficult to orient each end to
point
down the LOS. Raising either end to improve LOS isn't feasible.

I assume using 2.4 or 5GHz will have lots of interference. Would
there be
any merit in a licensed band?

Not hugely bothered by bandwidth, a few Mbps would be OK.


When I had a point to point wireless (2.4GHz) approx 400m if the
farmer didn't prune the apple tree in his front garden each year it
would render my signal almost useless especially in the wet.
Fortunately he was also landlord of my office and was obliging to
keep
me as a tenant.

So that's just a few leaves on an otherwise clear line of sight.


Technically 2.4GHz is for indoor use only. If you want to use it
externally you should be using the 5GHz band 'B' group.


--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com


  #7  
Old July 31st 18, 11:50 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
Theo[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 57
Default Point to point wireless

Woody wrote:
"AnthonyL" wrote in message
...

When I had a point to point wireless (2.4GHz) approx 400m if the
farmer didn't prune the apple tree in his front garden each year it
would render my signal almost useless especially in the wet.
Fortunately he was also landlord of my office and was obliging to
keep
me as a tenant.

So that's just a few leaves on an otherwise clear line of sight.


Thanks, that's a useful data point.

Technically 2.4GHz is for indoor use only. If you want to use it
externally you should be using the 5GHz band 'B' group.


And 2.4GHz is restricted to 100mW EIRP, while 5GHz can do 1W (band B
unlicensed) or 4W (band C licensed).

Theo
  #8  
Old August 1st 18, 12:19 PM posted to uk.telecom.broadband
AnthonyL
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 104
Default Point to point wireless

On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 23:10:15 +0100, "Woody"
wrote:


"AnthonyL" wrote in message
...
On 29 Jul 2018 23:39:35 +0100 (BST), Theo
wrote:


If I want to make a wireless link of about 500m through a typical
residential environment, but which can't do line of sight, is there
anything
I could do? The land is flat, but LOS goes obliquely through about
6 houses
so seems like a non-starter.

There's nowhere suitable to install a reflector - it might just be
possible to get reflections off existing objects, but it'll be two
or three
deep at a minimum. Also it might be difficult to orient each end to
point
down the LOS. Raising either end to improve LOS isn't feasible.

I assume using 2.4 or 5GHz will have lots of interference. Would
there be
any merit in a licensed band?

Not hugely bothered by bandwidth, a few Mbps would be OK.


When I had a point to point wireless (2.4GHz) approx 400m if the
farmer didn't prune the apple tree in his front garden each year it
would render my signal almost useless especially in the wet.
Fortunately he was also landlord of my office and was obliging to
keep
me as a tenant.

So that's just a few leaves on an otherwise clear line of sight.


Technically 2.4GHz is for indoor use only. If you want to use it
externally you should be using the 5GHz band 'B' group.


It provided me a faster connection than the broadband speed available
so I could piggy back on my office connection from home quite happily,
and access the office LAN at the same time.

--
AnthonyL
 




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